More analysis of Akkadian Seal VA/243

August 7th, 2018

Akkadian Cylinder Seal VA/243

A few years ago I posted my analysis of Akkadian Seal VA/243 showing that the ancient Sumerian/Akkadian civilizations probably knew about all the planets in our solar system thousands of years before we did.

Jim Branson has recently done his own analysis, some of it based on my work, and came to similar conclusions. In addition, Branson goes a little further than I did, also analyzing the positions of the planets on the cylinder seal trying to find out why they were positioned that way. Like I mentioned before, if the relative sizes of the planets were drawn on the seal in that way on purpose, it’s likely that the positions were also chosen on purpose and might convey some important information.

If you’re interested in this subject, you might also want to check out Branson’s work and thoughts. As he mentions:

There is evidence that this image not only was perfectly executed but that it also contains information far beyond what we have command of today.

Comments

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Contractions of Fate August 7th, 2018 at 9:12 am

Oh, good grief! More iconography nonsense?

1) The Sumerians did not use a star-shape to represent the Sun, they used a winged Ahten.

2) those dots are absolutely NOT to scale, either in size or distance. The seal would have to be 800 km squared.

3) consider this: you are really trying to say, without a hint of irony or anti-psychotic medication, that the Sumerians knew of a heliocentric solar system AND knew of several planets that we KNOW they did not know about. And yet, we KNOW that they actually believed in a geocentric, flat Earth cosmos, with a crystal dome separating the disk from the Primal waters and they knew of five planets, which they equated with being their gods, not places from which “The Righteous Ones of the Fiery Rocket Ship from Heaven to Earth Came”.

Dingir does not even mean that, as it does not come from merging Din and Gir.

We KNOW this. Because the Sumerians could write. And you can’t.

You do not read Sumerian, or any language written in Cuneiform. Neither did Sitchin. He could not even distinguish Ancient Hebrew from Ancient Aramaic. It was the worst kind of Pulp Fiction Trash scholarship. Pure iconography filtered through the imagination of a sci fi author in the 1950s and ’60s.

So how do you reconcile this so-called “advanced” heliocentric astronomical knowledge with the fact that their cosmology was geocentric with a flat, domed disk? Just like that of the Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians and Hebrew, who all adopted it?

>:8o

Reply
- Karel Donk August 7th, 2018 at 9:40 am
  
  It’s clear you didn’t even read the post. Click here to read, and then, cite what you don’t agree with and why.
  
  Reply
  - Contractions of Fate August 7th, 2018 at 4:35 pm
    
    It is clear that I did read your post, and your previous, and that you pulled this bull from up your arse.
    
    And, like all Woomeister charlatans and frauds, you cannot answer the most simple and straightforward question about Sumerian cosmology.
    
    Because you know none of the actual facts.
    
    Reply
    - Karel Donk August 7th, 2018 at 4:40 pm
      
      Then try comprehending what you read because your comment clearly shows you didn’t.
    - Contractions of Fate August 7th, 2018 at 5:20 pm
      
      Your infantile bluff and bluster and refusal to answer a simple question is almost as painful as reading a Flat Earther YEC talk about evolution. NO. Evolution is NOT “You put your head in a bucket of water and suddenly grow gills”. Nor is it “One animal changes into a completely different type of animal.”
      
      AGAIN, for the THIRD time, I ask you how do you reconcile this so-called “advanced” heliocentric astronomical knowledge with the fact that Sumerian cosmology was geocentric with a flat, domed disk floating in the Primal waters?
      
      How could that be? How could they know of a heliocentric solar system and still have a geocentric, flat Earth model of the cosmos?
      
      Although I doubt any answer will be forthcoming because, like any FlatTard YEC, for you to be correct, reality has to be wrong. And all the evidence ignored. And a huge pile of Woo invented.
      
      It’s a simple enough question. How could the Sumerians have had a heliocentric AND geocentric cosmology at the same time, particularly if this idea was given to them by visiting space aliens from an alleged planet so far away at aphelion that it could not possibly support, let alone evolve, humanoid life?
      
      Oh, and farming and irrigation evolved over thousands of years before the first city state appeared, and writing developed over many centuries. Newsflash! The Sumerians did NOT “pop into being overnight from nowhere”. They did not. We KNOW they did not. We even know of the Ubaid and Halaf who preceded them.
      
      >:8o
    - Karel Donk August 7th, 2018 at 7:39 pm
      
      It seems that sun in the middle with the planets surrounding it on VA/243 is causing you quite some discomfort. I suggest not ignoring this fine piece of history.
    - Contractions of Fate August 7th, 2018 at 9:17 pm
      
      You cause me no more discomfort than some moron Creationist trying to pass off helium diffusion rates as “proof” the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. Such appalling education and overwhelming stupidity is just sad.
      
      AND, as I predicted, no answer is forthcoming, because you are a charlatan.
      
      For the FOURTH time, you intellectually dishonest, deceitful fraud:
      
      How could the ancient Mesopotamians have a heliocentric AND a geocentric flat Earth cosmological model at the same time?
      
      And how could you not know that the Sun Ahten is nowhere to be found on that seal?
      
      And you should be utterly ashamed of yourself trying to palm off your gibberish as any kind of history. I doubt you have ever spent a moment studying any actual, genuine history, archaeology or science and have been completely Warped by the Woo.
      
      So, your answer, please.
      
      How could the ancient Mesopotamians have a heliocentric AND a geocentric flat Earth cosmological model at the same time?
      
      >:8o
    - Karel Donk August 7th, 2018 at 10:38 pm
      
      How is it possible to have flat earthers and round earthers today?
    - Contractions of Fate August 8th, 2018 at 2:06 am
      
      “How is it possible to have flat earthers and round earthers today?”
      
      That is the only semi-valid point you have made yet. But you have still not answered the question. Because you know nothing about ANE history and culture.
      
      We know what the Mesopotamian cosmology was because they could write. And they left an enormous amount of it. You cannot infer anything from iconography unless you lived in that culture. The nonsense about test tubes and flasks is even more ridiculous.
      
      There is no evidence at all that this seal represents the solar system and plenty that it does not. They did not represent the Sun as a star-shape and they knew of five planets. They did equate the planets with their gods, but they were not places where the gods lived and traveled from. The assertion that those dots represent other planets is nothing but science fiction. And badly written science fiction at that. Written by a charlatan and a fraud that could not even read ancient Sumerian and conflated his nonsense from a period of almost 3000 years across the entire Near East.
      
      Your nonsensical analysis of the image proves nothing, except that you can manipulate numbers, and you had to do it in different ways for different groups of dots or it wouldn’t work. The sizes are nowhere near to scale and the distances are absolutely impossible to represent on a seal of that size at any scale.
      
      Anyone who swallows your arse gravy, or Shitsins’, is an absolutely gullible imbecile who has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of actual Assyriology because they’ve never read a real book on it.
      
      >:8o
    - Karel Donk August 8th, 2018 at 8:32 am
      
      The math doesn’t lie unfortunately for you. Even without the math it’s clear from the image alone what it represents. The math further proves the mathematical relationship between the planets as they are drawn to (logarithmic) scale and reality. Whoever made this seal, was obviously smarter than you because they realized they would never be able to draw the planets and the sun to linear scale on that small seal, so they came up with an ingenious idea to do it to logarithmic scale, and still preserve the relative sizes as close to reality as possible.
    - Contractions of Fate August 9th, 2018 at 10:05 am
      
      “The math doesn’t lie unfortunately for you.”
      No. But unfortunately for YOU, maths can be misused in order for YOU to lie. But I think that you are simply a gullible buffoon who has absolutely no knowledge at all about the subject.
      
      Witness your next statement:
      
      “Even without the math it’s clear from the image alone what it represents.”
      No. It is not. Because over thousands of years the ancient Mesopotamians never represented the Sun with a star shape, in thousands upon thousands of images. Ever. And in thousands upon thousands of literary texts, religious texts, astronomical texts, they knew of only FIVE planets, plus the Sun, Earth and Moon.
      
      And yet some merchant is the only person in the entire ancient Near East who was given this “knowledge” by visiting aliens from a non-existent planet, which could not support life anyway. And they used combustive fuel in their “fiery rockets”! To mine gold! ROFLMAO! It’s just part of the Zeitgeist of the time when Shitsin wrote his gibberish. Von Daniktard was also quite popular then.
      
      “they realized they would never be able to draw the planets and the sun to linear scale on that small seal, so they came up with an ingenious idea to do it to logarithmic scale, and still preserve the relative sizes as close to reality as possible.”
      “They”? You mean this one obscure merchant or whoever he was? Even with your manipulations, your blog is nonsense. And what about the distances?
      
      But why not publish it in a peer-reviewed journal? A mathematical journal would probably not have referees who know any Assyriology, while any Assyriology journal would likely not have the mathematical experts. But I’m sure something could be arranged.
      
      >:8o
    - Karel Donk August 9th, 2018 at 10:24 am
      
      Perhaps you should consider the fact that certain knowledge was withheld from the general public back then and only a small elite had access to it. Much like today. I cover some of that in my posts “Apple – The Occult Secrets behind the Brand” and “Why ancient symbols are demonized”. The general public is given bullshit stories to consume, while the actual true knowledge is kept in a small circle of elite who rule over them. Do you believe the Catholic church believes the crap they teach people based on the bible? Or do you think they know the truth that’s covered in all the documents they have locked up at the Vatican? Don’t you think they knew the truth about the solar system while they were simultaneously imprisoning and executing people for saying the earth is not the center of the universe?
      
      As I cover in the linked posts, from the very beginning there were certain factions of the “gods” who didn’t want real knowledge to reach the masses, in order to feed them a false reality and keep them weak, dumb and subservient. This seal likely belonged to someone who had access to knowledge that most people back then didn’t have.
- Richard Joost October 7th, 2018 at 3:23 pm
  
  Hello, my name is Richard Joost, and i like to give my personal thanks to Karel Donk for his article about VA243.
  
  Thanks to people like him who give their time to analyze an ancient piece of history is really great. One thing is for sure that the piece VA243 is famous because of Mr. Sitchin.
  
  I like to respond to Mr or Ms Contractions of fate that Mr Sitchin is not an sci fi
  author from the 50s ore 60s but from the late 70s, his first book the 12 planet came out in 1976 where he shows his translation about the colors of Uranus an Neptune that the NASA confirmed in 1986 with fotos from the Voyager 2.
  
  Read this:https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/sitchinbooks07_01.htm
  
  First you should read his books and than you should give your opinion, and i tell you he is not an sci fi author. He also talked about water on Mars, that this year is finally confirmed by Nasa. Maybe his Sumerian translations are not good translated, that is possible because it is a dead language, but his Hebrew was for sure very good. He compares mostly of the old Sumerian tablets with the hebrew Bible.
  
  By the way: diĝir, dingir means god, deity; determinative for divine beings (di, ‘decision’, + ĝar, ‘to deliver’). If you translate : The Righteous Ones of the Fiery Rocket Ship from Heaven to Earth Came”, could mean gods!?
  Sumerian translation you can find here: http://sumer.grazhdani.eu/index.php
  
  Karel, please keep on going your way, don´t let negative people influence you.
  
  Best regards
  
  Richard
  
  Reply
  - Contractions of Fate October 7th, 2018 at 5:07 pm
    
    You are an imbecile, Richard. Shitsin could not read Cuneiform and did not reference any of his gibberish. The Digir symbol is completely unrelated to the symbol he invented from the separate symbols for Din and Gir.
    
    Get a real education:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSWDUutzjgg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT8fwxM7K1o
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kuL_I3qsO0
    
    >:8o
    
    Reply
- Peter Nowak October 19th, 2019 at 10:52 am
  
  I’m sorry but your statement is erronious!
  1. If the central object should not show the sun, what schould it show then and what kind of bodies are depicted around it? The depicted objects around the central object fit the former number, sequence and size ratio of the planets, beginning on the lower right hand side with Mercury, Venus, Earth with Moon (outside the ring of the planets), Mars with his two moons (one of which is visible, the other lies in the shadow of the unrolling of the seal but both outside the ring of the planets like the moon of the earth), then comes Tiamat at the place of the now asteroid belt, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and the smaller Pluto. The details of this depiction make it impossible that this accordance is only coincidence.
  Also the same way of depicting the sun is also shown at other places in this culture.
  So this argument doesn’t fit.
  2. As already shown the scale of the objects around the central object which are correctly interpreted as planets and moons around the sun matters and as the different size of Neptun and Pluto shows is depicted correct. Of course not the scale of the difference but the difference as such.
  Also not the distance in absolute measurement is depicted on the seal but the order of the planets from the sun and this symbolizes the different distances from the sun.
  3. Yes, the depiction of the seal is an enigma because many of the planets and moons depicted on the seal were invisible without optical instruments or space travel and we don’t know how this knowledge could have come to them. But the fact that this depiction shows the solar system with the still existing planets Tiamat and Apzu (on the right hand side far off the rest of the solar sytem) which were according to the Enuma Elish destroyed in an unknown past by the gods (which are in this depiction shown as persons not as planets) in the course of a war and didn’t exist at the time of the creation of the seal shows that this information must have come to them from the past. It is very likely that this seal was the property of a priest or at least of a member of a priestly family and that the knowledge depicted on it was once a secret of the elite of the society.
  Conclusion: The seal with absolute assurance shows our solar system. It is not clear were this knowledge of the solar system came from but the depiction shows that it comes from the past. It is very probably that the seal comes from a priestly family and that this knowledge was once kept a secret.
  
  Reply
  - Contractions of Fate October 19th, 2019 at 8:22 pm
    
    Peter,
    
    Apart from the fact that you are correct that Zachariah “Shyte-in-my-eye-a” Shitsin was a liar and a fraud (much like von Danniken and Ron Wyatt), everything else you said about the seal is delusional Woo.
    
    Reply
Reinhardt August 7th, 2018 at 11:57 pm

The guy with the giant brain said:

“So how do you reconcile this so-called “advanced” heliocentric astronomical knowledge with the fact that their cosmology was geocentric with a flat, domed disk? Just like that of the Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians and Hebrew, who all adopted it?”

The point of the article is to question the orthodoxy, to suggest that despite what we think we KNOW about the Sumerians, that there seems to be evidence that at least the engraver of this seal understood that the solar system was heliocentric and had nine planets plus our Moon plus Planet X.

If you read Karel’s original entry, he presents compelling evidence that the diameters of each circle are logarithmically related to the actual diameters of the actual planets. If Karel’s conclusions are correct, then what you think you KNOW is bullocks, and you don’t actually KNOW jack.

It might be time to put down that bag of Cheetos, get up from behind your monitor, crawl up out of your mom’s basement, and walk outside and consider Descartes’s assertion: “I think, therefore I am.” This is the only thing that any of us KNOW, everything else is an assumption.

Reply
- Contractions of Fate August 9th, 2018 at 10:00 am
  
  “The point of the article is to question the orthodoxy”
  The problem is that in order to question any academic or scientific consensus or “orthodoxy”, you have to have some, basic idea of what the orthodoxy actually is, what the evidence is and how much there actually is. And you two just don’t have the faintest clue. You are like Young Earth Creationists claiming that evolution is you jump of a tower block, flap your arms and suddenly sprout wings. Straw Man Redux.
  
  And then you need to get some actual evidence to support your alternative hypothesis, instead of inventing it.
  
  “there seems to be evidence that at least the engraver of this seal understood that the solar system was heliocentric and had nine planets plus our Moon plus Planet X.”
  Where? Our solar system does not appear anywhere on that seal. Neither does the Sun, as represented by any iconography in the ANE.
  
  In one, single seal out of thousands upon thousands, there is an image that some charlatan and fraud claimed represented the solar system. And gullible fools who know no better think “Yeah! It DOES look a bit like a solar system!” But the Sun does not twinkle like a star. Even as children we don’t represent the Sun in drawings as a star shape, because it looks like a disk. We might draw rays coming from it. Also, the Mesopotamians never did, ever, in thousands upon thousands of images, represent the Sun as a star shape.
  
  Except this one merchant who signs off his seal as “Your servant”.
  
  And yet, every other single source over thousands of years represented the Sun as a disk or winged disk and indicates that they knew of only five planets.
  
  “the diameters of each circle are logarithmically related to the actual diameters of the actual planets.”
  No. They are not. If you actually read it, he used multiple manipulations on separate groups, until he found a way to retro-fit them to his presuppositional nonsense.
  
  And they still didn’t fit properly, so he manipulated them again.
  
  Anyway, I grow tired of this buffoonery. Let this be published in a real journal if it has any merit. Web blogs are notorious for being full of crap.
  
  >:8o
  
  Reply
  - Chuck Morgan October 28th, 2019 at 5:32 am
    
    I am in full and 100% of your assessment of Z. Sitchin, this sort of nonsense needs to end. Many of the advocates are totally ignorant of Mesopotamian literature and culture. I see from the comments that those in favor of the rhetoric, are clueless and offer no linguistic support, let alone corroborating evidence.
    
    I’m writing an article on Neberu (Nibiru) and this (VA-243) seal, debunking the misinformation coming from Sitchin and those misguided children he fathered.
    
    Simply ask them why doesn’t the seal mention the names of the planets, the name Sag-me-gar if it’s Sumerian and Ne2be2ru if it’s Akkadian, from what I have read they know nothing about this.
    
    Reply
    - Contractions of Fate February 18th, 2021 at 5:37 pm
      
      I would very much like to read your article when published.
- Peter Nowak October 19th, 2019 at 11:24 am
  
  You are wrong! Zecaria Sitchin on whom you are based misinterpreted the seal. There is no “panet X” on the seal. The depiction starts on the lower right hand side with Mercury, then comes above this Venus, then the Earth with the Moon (last one depicted outside the ring of the planets), then comes Mars with his two moons, one of which is visible the other in the shadow of the unrolling of the seal (both are depicted outside the ring of the planets like the moon of the earth), then comes the former planet Tiamat at the place of the steroid belt, then Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and at the lowest point Pluto which is depicted smaller than Neptune. In front of the nose of the person on the right hand side of the depiction of the solar sytem is another planet which I identify with the former planet Apzu which is now the Oorth cloud. The planets Apzu and Tiamat were according to the Enuma Elish destroyed by the gods in the course of a war. They didn’t exist at the time of the creation of the seal therefore I think this information about the composition of the solar system came from the past. But the exact source of this knowledge remains an enigma because many of the depicted planets and moons are not visible without optical instruments or space travel.
  
  Reply
Oleg Lyashenko February 18th, 2021 at 3:54 pm

Hi Karel,
I think you did an excellent job in proving that the image on VA 243 represents our Solar system. I would suggest that this image represents the Solar system as it was before an ancient catastrophic event. There is a strong evidence that the Planet X did exist between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter but it disintegrated under obscure conditions and the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter represents the remains of this planet. You can read about the Exploded Planet Hypothesis here: https://web.archive.org/web/20021121062245/http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/eph/eph2000.asp#_edn9. Also, as a result of this explosion the Moon became Earth’s satellite though initially it was an individual planet as depicted on the seal and corroborated by the fact that Sumerians treated the Moon as a planet. There is also some evidence that this catastrophic event took place comparatively recently – about 10500 BC, causing Younger Dryas period and a large scale extinction on Earth.

Reply
- Contractions of Fate February 18th, 2021 at 5:38 pm
  
  Really?
  
  Would you like to buy Londong Bridge? I own it and all the rights to it. You can have it for the low, low price of $1,000.
  
  Reply
- Karel Donk February 19th, 2021 at 7:41 pm
  
  What you say could be a possibility. But I think the event that caused the major disruption you mention probably happened much earlier than 10500 BC. Probably tens of thousands of years ago. Around 12000 BC we probably had what most cultures describe as the great flood. You should also look into the presentations by Dr. Tom van Flandern regarding the violent history of Mars; I mention some in the footnotes in my post “Exponential Growth In The Fractal Universe.” I think you’ll find them interesting.
  
  Reply
Contractions of Fate February 18th, 2021 at 5:40 pm

The best thing I can say about Karel Donk is that he actually does believe in no censorship, otherwise he would delete any post of actual facts on this seal and the theology, culture and mythology of Sumer.

Reply
- Karel Donk February 19th, 2021 at 7:44 pm
  
  Actually, I’m leaving them up so you can come back later and find out how wrong you were. 🙂
  
  Reply
  - Contractions of Fate February 19th, 2021 at 8:31 pm
    
    Then you truly are delusional.
    
    Reply

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