In March 2006 I got to know about a book by Sarah Menet called “There is no Death”. I went to do some research to find out what it was all about and found that it discussed some interesting topics and questions. Topics and questions that, like most people, keep me busy everyday. So I went ahead and bought a copy of the book. I felt that in my quest to find answers to certain questions, if this was one of the best experiences on this topic out there, I should at least have looked at it for my personal ‘research’ to be relatively complete in any way. In this post I will discuss a few things about the book and give a short review on it.
The story in this book is quite interesting. It’s about a woman, Sarah Menet, who had a very difficult life starting from her early childhood. While reading the book, you might find it hard to believe someone can go through all of those things and have so much bad luck in life. It’s just one bad event after another and it’s very depressing. At one point I even asked myself if this could be true, as it was hard to believe and comprehend the fact that someone’s life could have been the way she described it. In any case, things got worse until one day she decided to just commit suicide. And she then had a Near Death Experience (NDE), which is the most interesting part of this book. The reason for this is because she seems to have been able to remember quite a lot from her NDE in lots of details. I’ve never heard of such a detailed experience before.
But while her experiences are very nice and interesting, and while she attempts to provide answers to some important questions in life, there are a lot of unanswered questions and even contradictions in her story. Certain things are not very clear, and sometimes just don’t make sense. So after I read the book, I contacted her through email with some of the questions I had. I got a reply from her assistant (Sarah herself is now blind and cannot answer emails herself), and I was promised answers to my questions. That was in March 2006. I still haven’t heard from them yet. There could be various reasons for that, and I couldn’t wait much longer for answers, so I decided to put my thoughts about the book online and update it when I receive a response from Sarah in the future.
My overall impression of the book is that, just like religion in general, it serves to give people hope in life. It tries to show people that there is a purpose for life, and that even though they may be going through some difficult times, there are good things to look forward to. Ofcourse, only if you’ve been a good person. It also serves to give people some level of comfort in life. And as a result of this, it should be no surprise when people love the book and praise it. The things described in the book about Sarah’s NDE, are so beautiful, that most people will automatically believe it without any resistance at all. Most people might not give it any serious and critical thought at all. It’s all just so beautiful, seems correct and plausible, and is seemingly in line with Christian faith, that there’ll be little resistance to accepting it and believing it’s true.
But I think that once you start paying some careful attention to certain things, and once you apply some critical thinking to it, you find a lot of contradictions and unanswered questions. And I will discuss some of them below. Keep in mind that this is by no means a complete list of things I found questionable. There’s a lot more, but these are the more simple things that I can mention in the context of this book alone. When you would consider other things as well apart from the book, like religion in general, and put the book in greater context with those things, there are a lot more issues that come to mind.
One of the first things I want to mention is the following: When Sarah was in the spirit world, at some point she had a Q&A session, where she just stood somewhere in that world, and could think of any question she had and would immediately get the answers right into her mind (page 31). She described being able to ask hundreds of questions at the same time and the answers coming back instantly, and being able to comprehend them all perfectly. She described this as being the capabilities of the spirit-mind. That’s great, but then just a few pages later (page 40), she mentions seeing a library, a very large room with row after row of huge books. And she mentions people standing there studying and reading. So this begs the question: If one can easily ask questions and receive answers instantly, why do you need a library in the spirit-world? Why would people spend time there standing and reading, when they could simply ask questions and receive answers directly in their mind and comprehend them instantly as described earlier. Doesn’t make sense to me and is contradicting.
Secondly, Sarah describes (page 104) that before people come to earth, they lived as spirits in the spirit-world for a very long time. And the spirits in the spirit-world are given a choice to come live on earth as mortals. They are never being forced to do this, but can make their own choice to do so. When the choice is made to come to earth, we’re shown some of what our life on earth will be like. We’re given a small glimpse into our future life. God is able to look into the future somehow, and show us some of the joys, suffering and challenges we would face. What this means, is that all those millions of people suffering everyday in Ethiopia, knew they would come to earth and basically live in the dessert starving most of their lives. The children who get born there, knew they’d suffer from day 1, and die very young, possibly even as infants. This begs the question: What is the purpose of such a life? What can an infant possibly learn in such a situation and having died so young?
And I’m not done with this yet. What the above also means, is that spirits about to come to earth, can also see that they will be an evil person and have a very terrible life. Why on earth would they then still choose to come to earth to sin? For example, this means that Hitler knew beforehand what kind of a person he would be, because he saw most of his life before he chose to come to earth. A drugdealer and leader of some crime network, can also see his life before he comes to earth. Why would he still choose to come to earth anyway and be such a bad person? Does this make sense to you? Not to me.
But wait, there’s still more. When spirits are able to see their future life on earth, and god is able to show them their future and the events that will take place, this implies that their lives are all planned. And indeed, Sarah mentions in various parts of her book that our lives are planned (page 115), and many things just don’t happen as coincidences. But then, she also mentions that we can change things and make our own decisions. We can also be influenced by good and evil spirits into taking certain actions. This begs the question: If our lives on earth are planned, and if indeed we can see certain events happen beforehand, how is it possible that we can still change things and be influenced to do certain things differently? Afterall, when you are able to view your life beforehand, it’s already pretty much set in stone how your life will be from beginning to end. Indeed, even the day you’ll die is planned, as spirits in the spirit-world are able to tell you when “it’s not your time yet”. When you’ve seen certain events that will happen, it would not make sense to say that you can change those. Afterall, then it would not have been your future and god would not have shown it to you. It would then also not make sense to say that your life is planned. So this is just another contradiction. Plus, if things are already planned, and the outcome is known, certainly to god because he is able to see the future and see our whole life, why do we still have to go through all of this? Why can we not just fast forward through this? The outcome is known and planned, so we can’t change it. And as a result, it doesn’t make sense to go through all of this. It’s not like we can change any major events that will take place. It’s all planned. This just doesn’t make sense.
And related to what I just talked about, Sarah also says (page 113) that “good wins in the end because god is in control.” Ofcourse, we must have a happy ending for there to be any hope and comfort from this story. This is similar to the bible. But I can’t help but wonder, again, what the purpose of going through all this is, when it is fairly clear, and indeed certain, that in the end good will win and god will destroy all evil? Take the bible for example. At the end there’s the book of revelations, where it is described how god will destroy all evil, including satan and his followers. Don’t you ever wonder if satan ever realizes that he has no chance? I’m assuming here that satan has got to be a lot smarter than me. Doesn’t he ever wonder, that if things are already planned and set in stone, and that it is already known that he will be destroyed, what the use is of going through all of this now? Put yourself in the position of satan for a moment. If you knew that it was quite certain that you would die at the end of this day, would you still go through this day as you normally would? No, you wouldn’t. If you were building a house, and you knew that as soon as it was finished, it would be destroyed whatever you did, would you build it anyway? What would be the use of that? If it is so certain that you will lose, and you simply know you can’t change that, why would you still want to fight? Don’t you think satan ever thought of this? Don’t you think satan is aware of the book of revelations? (I wrote a story about this before) This stuff just doesn’t make sense to me. Moreover, when it can be so clear to at least one party that he is destined to win, whatever happens, and that perty is even in control, it does not seem like a fair fight to me, since it implies that the other party never stood a chance to begin with.
Sarah also mentions the mentally handicapped (page 108). She said that those people knew that they would be born with that challenge. Children born with those challenges are very special spirits who are the best and most noble of god’s children. They come to earth primarily to receive a body and help others to learn how to love and give service. When I see such people, not only do I feel sadness, but also lots of anger towards god. Why would he allows this kind of suffering? Like the children suffering in Iraq, who lose their arms and other bodyparts and their families because of others. If I, as an imperfect human being, can feel this much pain and sadness when seeing this, then what must god feel? As Sarah explains in her book, his love is supposed to be far greater than we can possibly imagine. How is he able to just watch and do nothing? Sarah also mentioned that god does not test us on purpose, and that bad things just happen because of our choices and because of bad people around us. So if god doesn’t test us on purpose, why then does he allow special spirits to get born as handicapped people to influence us? Another contradiction in her story.
Sarah also talks about dreams in her book (page 102) saying that one of the ways spirits can communicate with us is through dreams. How convenient. Why do they communicate through dreams when we are not very aware of what’s going on? Why can’t they just communicate with us when we’re awake and aware of what’s going on and are able to verify what we are experiencing? This just looks like a convenient way to make it appear like when we have certain dreams, it can really be a message from someone from the spirit-world instead of just something our brain made up while we were asleep. How can one ever be sure?
Throughout her book, she often mentions that people have to be good and make the correct decisions in order for them to receive god’s blessings and get rewarded. Even in the spirit-world, you only get things within the limits of what you have earned. You have to be able to forgive people to make yourself acceptable to god. Only if we can forgive people who did us harm, can we receive special blessings from god. So I can’t help but notice, that people are only encouraged to do the right thing because of some reward they will get in return. If people would only do good because of wanting or expecting to get rewarded, it only confirms the sad state in which humanity is today. And if god encourages this, it only shows that there is something seriously wrong with this theory. Furthermore, if people would only do good because they fear punishment from god, god is setting himself up for major problems. It also shows the rather sad state of those people. People should do good because they really want to, not because they fear punishment or expect rewards in return.
And finally, her book looks at things from the perspective of Christianity and as a result validates all Christian religions as being true. But she fails to answer an important question. How do we know that the Christian religions, or just Christianity, is the true religion? And furthermore, one of the questions I asked her and am still waiting for an answer on, is that assuming that god exists, why does he make it so difficult and confusing for us to find him and find what the truth is? There are so many religions, with so many different theories, there are so many confusing theories, how am I to know what is correct? Why doesn?t he at least make it easy for me to know what is correct and that he really exists and who he is etc. so that I can have no doubts? Why must it be a puzzle? Is it not difficult enough to, once you know which is the right one, to follow that path? Why does it also have to be a puzzle to find out which is the right path to begin with?
And so, what happens to people of different religions? What happens to those Indians deep inside the Amazon who never heard of Christianity? What about those African tribes? Surely it would not be fair if they get punished just because they never knew the right religion to begin with, and never even had a chance to learn of it.
In conclusion, the book is interesting, mostly if regarded as a work of fiction. When you want to treat it as something more serious, there are a number of issues like contradictions and unanswered questions, that just make it impossible to take it seriously. And since the book is supposed to be about a true story, that is a big problem. Very big.
I wouldn’t dare try to answer for Sarah Menet. I think what we will learn someday is that before we were born we progressed in the spirit world at different stages. I also think that children that died at a early age may only needed to gain the physical body and then progress into the afterlife. God may tell us what we can be or do in this life, but we are still given agency to choose.
I’m sure that because I have the same religious beliefs as Sarah that is why what she says doesn’t seem to be strange or in conflict. I have learned where we came from and why we are here.
Am I wrong in saying that from reading your posts that you are probably not a religious person or am I wrong? Are you a bible reader or a critic of most religions? Are you truly searching for answers to life or just angry at the world? Do you really want answers from Sarah or do you just want confrontation? Maybe Sarah’s assistant could sense that you were not truly wanting answers?
I could lead you in a direction to find answers, but you would have to be humble and truly seeking with faith.
Jay
Karel,
Maybe you can search for answers at the Brahma Kumaris.
“There is no hard evidence, nothing verifiable, nothing that can really be convincing….Nobody can be 100% certain and offer any evidence of his existence. You just have to believe in it. This is something I can not do. If I’m going to believe something, and have it influence my life, I have to be sure it’s real.
And so I really want answers. But I want good answers that explain everything. Not answers that are contradicting, or answers that bring up more questions, or answers that require me to just believe certain things without any proof. And yes, I ask questions which are very sharp and direct and certainly can feel like a confrontation or like an attack. But that is the general idea. I?m not doing it because of any negative feelings however, I?m doing it because I really seek answers and would love it if that person can provide them to me and convince me. That’d help me out of some of my misery. ”
Thank you for your site, Karel. I want to say first off that skepticism can be very healthy, if it does not become cynicism. Skepticism is a product of critical thinking, and a mental self-defense mechanism.
The most important concept to realize when it comes to understanding God, and the nature of this life, is that there is no “proof”. The five human senses will never be able to verify the existence of God — and that is done purposefully, and is one of our trials in this life. Consider that even most of the people who lived during the time of Jesus Christ and saw his miracles did not consider such to be “proof”, and indeed still rejected the concept that he was the Son of God. God will only reveal that He exists through individual, personal verification. The process to receive personal verification that God exists begins with a trial of faith.
What is the difference between “belief” and “faith”? Belief is the acknowledgement that something is true, or could be true. Faith is an action that is taken based upon a belief. An act of faith could be as simple as getting on one’s knees and saying a prayer to God, asking Him in humility whether or not He exists — with full openness and vulnerability of heart that one could indeed receive an answer through divine confirmation.
You will find an excellent treatise on the subject of faith here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/#13
The book of Alma, Chapter 32, verses 13 through 42.
“And so I really want answers. But I want good answers that explain everything.”
You ask excellent questions in your book review. And you do an excellent job of critically analyzing events that Sarah Menet witnessed, that, due to her limited descriptions and narration, you conclude as being contradictory.
One thing you must realize is that all of your questions are answerable. Are those answers easy, one-line answers? Absolutely not. The answer to each of your questions requires, first, a good foundational overview and understanding of the basic doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which can be found and reviewed at:
http://www.lds.org
or
http://www.mormon.org
And as Jay admonishes, you must be willing to be humble in seeking to know the answers. You would have to, minimally, research with an attitude of “I have no idea if these things are true, but I am willing to look at them, read them, ponder them, and pray about them while keeping in mind that they could very well be true.”
If you cannot do this — if you let frustration, pride, anger, or an attitude of mockery come over you while you research these things — then your efforts will be in vain.
“If I’m going to believe something, and have it influence my life, I have to be sure it’s real.”
I sense that, above all, you are careful and reserved in what you choose to believe. This is an asset to you, because you strive to be keenly aware of deceit. I admonish you to research the gosple of Jesus Christ as put forth in its purity and simplicity through the only church with the authority to teach and act in His name. In humbly doing so, you will find the answers to the questions you ask, and many many more.
I have read Sarah Menet’s book, and I know it is a true account of what lies beyond the grave. I also have seen a video of one of her public appearences, and I know that she is a woman of tremendous integrity and honor. I completely believe her account of her life’s struggles. (Although she has endured some of the worst things imaginable, I have read of true life experiences worse that hers).
You can download the MP3 audio file of one of Sarah’s public appearances here:
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/modules/weblog/details.php?blog_id=41
I suspect that you have not heard from her because, although she is legally blind, she is a very busy woman, who spends countless selfless hours providing counsel to deeply depressed and grieving people who contact her, completely free of charge. She states on her website that such contact and situations receive highest priority. I suspect that she receives many emails that seek to question what some feel are inconsistencies — whether these emails are benign or negative in nature, I can imagine that she does not wish to spend her time seeking to defend her account.
Here is the answer to one of your inconsistency concerns: we are not shown our entire life before coming to earth — we are shown snippets of what to expect in general, the conditions we will face, some of the trials we may endure, and, most important, what things could take place based upon the choices we make. Once we are here, through our choices, we determine what our lives will be. Yes, before he was born, Hitler was probably shown the conditions he would be born into, and what may occur during his childhood, and that he could have chosen to become some nice German guy helping to assist in rebuilding the country after the devastation of WWI — or he could choose to seek power and glory of men and to completely rule all of Europe and massacre millions in the process — or someone somewhere inbetween.
Do we not each of us have the potential to be like Hitler if we choose to go down such a monstrous path?!? Maybe not each of us could have the opportunity to assend to evil ‘greatness’ as he did no matter how much we may carnally desire such status — but we could easily choose to be on par with one of his generals or loyal followers. Do not these modern-day neo-Nazi followers choose to be that way and choose to admire Hitler and his legacy? God is not twisting their arm to do so — He has given them their free-agency and mental faculty to recognize what is inherently good and evil. They can seek good if they so choose, despite whatever pressure family or friends may inflict on them.
And the most beautiful truth of all is that Jesus Christ atoned for our sins. He lived a perfect life, and He suffered the consequences of each of our sins. And in so doing, He has provided a way for us to repent of our wrongs, to give us a “second chance” to learn from our mistakes after we have made bad and unwise choices in life. That is His purpose and mission — to allow us the opportunity to make ourselves right with God. This is why Jesus stresses that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6) All other gods and religious teachings fall short of providing a clear example and straightforward road in how to return to God. No other deity, save Jesus Christ, willingly endured unspeakable torment and wholy sacrificed himself in order to provide a way in which we could repent of our bad choices in order to purify our hearts. All those who are born, live, and die without ever having the chance to even hear the name of Jesus Christ, let alone know what he did for us, will have the opportunity to learn the Gospel in the spirit world. They will not be “thrust down to hell”, as many Christian sects would have their followers believe, because God is just. If He is not just, He cannot be God. However, each and every person born in this world is given the faculty to discern what is truly good and bad, and right and wrong. Even those who are taught that being evil is good when they are children will eventually have enough life experience to realize that they were raised on lies. Whether or not a man ever hears of Jesus Christ, God can and will judge him according to the choices he made based upon what he experienced in this life.
I know that these answers are true, and I hope they can give you some peace of mind in beginning to resolve some of what you consider to be inconsistencies. Please continue to search and ponder these teachings; and please make the effort to exercize faith by praying about these things. Your life will be blessed in ways you cannot now comprehend if you do.
I would not have spent the time writing you all of this if I did not have faith that it would lead you to the answers you seek. My hope is that you act upon the information provided, learn for yourself that God exists, and humbly desire to learn more about Him.
Karel,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses to my comments. If I may, I would like to address some points that I wish to clarify.
“I don’t want to hear it from prophets, leaders of various religions and I don?t want to get it in dreams, NDE or by some vague “miracle” like a burning bush. I want to see him personally, be able to ask questions, anything, and get the answers personally from him so I can be fully convinced. This is what I need to be able to believe.”
There’s a couple of issues with desiring such things and at the same time refusing to acknowledge teachings and counsel of those who have received revelation from God. If you were to have a “face to face” encounter with God, quite simply, you would be a prophet. The definition of prophet is to be the “mouthpiece” of God, and to receive regular instructions and information directly from Him to proclaim to the world. Therefore, your criteria for belief becomes: either I have the priviledge to become a prophet and talk face-to-face with God, and thereby have Him directly and overwhelmingly convince me of the truth, or I refuse to receive counsel or pray about the words and teachings given to prophets of old because God refuses to reveal himself on my terms. Are you prepared to accept the consequences of becoming a prophet — thereby forever living by and upholding evermore-strict and unbendable laws and covenants with God? The penalty of breaking such are far more dire and disasterous than what is put upon other believers who later reject God and his laws.
In essence, you demand to be convinced in order to believe. Yet, once you know something completely, it becomes absolute knowledge, not belief or faith. You seek to sidestep the critical components of belief and faith — and I feel it is because you let yourself become frustrated that there are too many religions and doctrines and theories in the world. God will leave you in your state of frustration if you do not at least attempt to try out one belief or another in order to gauge the results you receive.
“And I know there’s something in the bible to the effect of “you shall not challenge or question god”, and that is just very convenient. Why can I not question or challenge? This would be similar to when a leader of a country would do whatever he pleases, and would tell you to believe him whatever he says, and would not allow you to question him, and would even punish you if you tried. I’m sure you know that such a leader can only be described as a dictator and that would be or could lead to tyranny.”
There is one key component to this argument that you are leaving out: in order for God to be God, he must be absolutely and unconditionally just. He must be perfect and consistent in His dealings with men according to the laws He puts forth. An imperfect human and fallible dictator can “do whatever he pleases”, but God MUST abide by His own laws. And those laws MUST be universally just, or He cannot be God. And those laws are based upon His PERFECT and COMPLETE love for each and every one of us. Therefore, this is why it is considered to be on dangerous ground to “challenge” the way God works — especially if one already believes in or has faith in these matters. This warning is more for believers than non-believers. It is never a sin to ask sincere questions, or to honestly seek answers as to why God’s laws are the way they are — but it must be kept in mind that the one true God will not arbitrarily change things or do things on a whim just because “He felt like it.”
“Making assumptions could be very dangerous, since it could lead you to choose the wrong religion. So before making a choice, I want to be very very sure I’m doing the right thing.”
This is exactly the correct attitude to have. However, it must be realized that, quite simply, we learn from the mistakes we make in this life. God will not “blast you with lightning” if you do everything in your power to make the best conscious decision which religion you chose to join — and then you end up joining the wrong one. If you are humble enough to do all the research you can, and PRAY about the religions you research, He will eventually give you undeniable confirmation in your heart as to which one He wishes for you to join.
This is what I mean when I state that the five human senses will never be able to verify the existence of God. When I wrote that “there is no ‘proof’”, I purposely put the word “proof” in quotes because it denotes the world’s and science’s definition of “proof” — an experience that can be verifiable within the faculties of our five physical senses, typically through sight and sound.
“If he wants us to know he exists, he should provide clear and undisputable evidence. No vague stuff.”
Again, “clear and undisputable evidence” to the world destroys any chance for humans to exercise belief or faith. However, through the exercising of belief and faith, personal undisputable divine evidence is a reality and is obtainable. After one receives such divine evidence, then they are able to state that they KNOW that what they believe and exercise faith in is, in fact, true.
“Plus, when he provides evidence, it should not be something like a hand writing on a wall, or a burning bush. Some of those things might be attributed to simple effects in nature, or can easily be done by satan and his followers to fool people.”
An excellent observation. True signs and miracles follow those that are humbly and righteously doing the work of God. Signs should never be sought for or justified as some kind of verification that this god or that god is the true god — specifically signs and wonders that are given to thousands or millions of unbelievers in order to convince them to belief. True signs and miracles are never arbitrary — they follow the believers as a result of their belief and faith: Jesus’ healings, the miracle of the bread and fishes, Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead — these are true signs and miracles. Consider that Jesus never performed a miracle in front of crowds of unbelieving Jews, or in front of his political accusers and inquisitors as they questioned him. Signs and miracles do not convince someone of truth — they are God’s blessings as a result of faith.
“But how do you know for a fact that those answers are true? You cannot verify them. And you use the exact same thing to prove that that thing is valid.”
I know they are true because I have exercised faith, and I have received divine confirmation on a wholy personal level. I cannot convince you in any other way that they are true; I can only share with you the fact that I have studied these teachings, I have pondered them in my mind and heart, I have prayed about them, and I have, as Jesus promises, received divine confirmation of them in my heart and mind (which is often referred to in scripture as “receiving the Holy Ghost”). The more I follow the commandments of God, and the more I am obedient to His word, the more comfort and confirmation I receive on a daily basis. As I disobey, or treat these things lightly, that inner comfort fades.
“…to prove that god exists and that the bible is right, you?re pulling quotes from the bible as evidence. That?s not right. You try to tell me that the bible is true, by assuming that it is true and taking quotes out of it as evidence. I hope you can understand how this is not correct.”
I can in no way prove to anyone that the Bible, or the Book of Mormon for that matter, is true. But I can testify that I know, on a deeply personal and spiritual level, through the confirmation of the Holy Ghost (as previously discussed), that they are, in fact, true volumes of scriptures, written by prophets and apostles who were given these teachings from the true and living God. And I can testify to you that if I can KNOW these things through the process outlined by these books’ teachings, then anyone can know these things as well. Therefore, it is not as though I am trying to prove a scientifically-provable theory based on self-evidence. I am simply making a deeply personal statement that I can base all of my life’s decisions on, and trust in to the end of my life — so much so that I have no problem sharing these things openly with complete strangers no matter what they may think of me as a result.
If I may share one last thing, I would like to give you a parable of sorts:
I once heard a story that a man related — about an incident that happened during his childhood. His family traveled to England, and they toured some of the old ruins of castles. He, being about 11 years old, explored around some of the castle walls and now-torn-down towers. He climbed up one tower area because he saw light coming in from the top. He got to the top edge of the round walls and looked around at the wonderous landscape. Within a couple minutes, he realized that getting up was far easier than climbing down. The tower’s shaft was completely dark, and he had no idea where to put his hands or feet in order to climb back down. In a panic, he started weeping and called out for his father at the top of his lungs. Within moments, his father was there at the bottom of the tower shaft, in the pitch dark, calling back to him, “Son, I’m here! Calm yourself down, I see you.” He cried that he could not see his father down below, and remained panicky. His father continued, “Son, don’t worry — I can see exactly where you are, and I am prepared to catch you. You’re going to have to jump. But don’t worry, I promise you I will catch you.”
The drop was about 15 feet down. It took him about 20 minutes of calming down and reassurance from his father that he would catch him. Because he had trust in his father’s ability, and faith that his father would safely catch him, he finally jumped into the darkness. And his father caught him, and he was not harmed.
Now, apply this story to each and every person on earth. In order to know God exists, each of us must be willing to take that kind of jump, and have faith that in so doing, God will “catch” us. There are many ways to choose how to approach this situation — some of them are:
1) We can get angry about it. We can be resentful and bitter that we are in this situation. We can yell and scream down the shaft at God to somehow indisputably prove to us that He is down there ready to catch us. And God will remain silent to such an attitude, because we are not ready to apply the trust and faith needed to make the jump.
2) We can dismiss it. We can simply choose to stay up there the rest of our life and enjoy the scenery. We can be ambivalent to whether God exists or whether there is something more and better to this life. That is our choice.
3) We can desire to make the jump. We can contemplate the teachings and experiences of those who have already made the jump, and who readily testify that God will catch us. We can humble ourselves before the great vast blackness of the shaft, and plead with God to give us direction and comfort to make the jump. We can be patient in waiting for an answer. And then, once God deems us sufficiently ready to make the jump, He will give us an answer of calm in our hearts, and alleve our fears and trepidations. And then, once we have received His answer of calmness, we can with certainty make the jump, and be caught in the arms of our loving Father in Heaven.
These are merely three ways out of many in how we can approach this dilemma. Please note that it is borderline foolishness to merely jump haphazardly based upon someone saying, “Oh yeah, it’s safe. Go ahead and jump. God’s down there — He’ll catch you.” To take immediate action off of one person’s advice is not true preparation. To know for sure, one must humble one’s self before God and prayerfully go through the steps of receiving His personal, individual, divine confirmation.
I have no idea who you are, Karel, but I care about you enough to share all these things with you. I have “made that jump”. I can testify that God is there, waiting to catch us. He will only give confirmation and calm to those who humbly prepare themselves for the jump. I do not want you to just take a flying jump based on my words. My hope is that you ponder the contents of my words, and prepare yourself for the jump by researching the teachings of Jesus Christ in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and humbly praying about what you learn and/or have difficulty with. God will lead you.
This is my testimony, and it gives me ineffable joy in my soul. It gives me strength each and every day I live. It gives me guidance and patience and charity and longsuffering in my heart. I would willingly give my life in defending this truth, for I dedicate my life to it. It is the greatest of all blessings known to man.
Thank you, once again, for reading my words and hearing my message of joy.
Hello Karel,
I wish to thank you, once again, for your thoughtful responses. I hope that you will allow me another opportunity to respond.
As I was reviewing your statements, it kept puzzling me as to why you felt I am trying to prove these things, when I clearly state that I cannot; I can only testify of my deepest convictions and share with you my learned insight of what I know, which is truly and personally confirmed to my soul through the divine manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
And then a couple of thoughts occurred to me.
One was in the way we differ in which we are using semantics and approaching the subject.
I concede the point that it is impossible to prove the existence of God based on something scientifically conclusive or within the realm of the five human senses. In fact, I go so far as to assert that God Himself has set up this life, this existence, so that one could never prove His existence externally through such methods. This I stated upfront from the beginning.
If truth cannot be proven absolutely within scientific realms, in this world and in this life we must approach such issues through a type of legal reasoning: to come to the conclusion of what is most likely the truth based upon evidence that is presented, and the testimony of witnesses and experts. And even then, no matter how incredibly conclusive the evidence and testimony may be in a case, we can choose to believe either conclusion based upon our own faculty of reasoning, or we can be ambivalent about the whole thing.
Therefore, my semantics and discussion becomes that of a legal standpoint, not a scientific standpoint — I give testimony based upon that which I know to be true. And I further declare that I know these things to be true because I have received divine confirmation of them directly from God in my heart and in my mind. Therefore, it goes beyond me just saying that “I believe them because they make sense to me, and they seem like good mult-millennia-old teachings that by following I can live a good life by” — my statements become “These are not just good teachings of the ages, these are divine instructions given directly from God to his chosen servants on earth, of which things I know to be true because I have received divine confirmation from God about these teachings, and everyone can have the same divine confirmation by following these God-given instructions.”
I feel that, from your perspective, the legal standpoint in this matter is not good enough — you feel that you cannot rely on presented evidence and testimony to be guided to discover the truth of whether God exists or not.
And I that brings me to the second thought that occurred to me.
The reason I suspect that you do not wish to acknowledge testimony, scriptures, and prophetic teachings and instruction is because of a very basic fact: these sources are biased as to the existence of God. I gather that because these sources are biased, you conclude that they are unreliable, because their goal in the first place is to get you to desire to believe that there is a God. Just like an instruction manual, its goal is to lead you step by step until you reach a specific conclusion — and it can, in no way, be unbaised. I further suspect that you are searching for a conclusive unbiased source that overwhelmingly denotes the existence of God and His nature, or short of that you need to be convinced directly from God that He exists through face-to-face conversation.
If I am off-base here in deriving what your feelings are on the matter, I invite you to correct me. Otherwise, I wish to put forth my thoughts on these things.
I completely understand about wishing to find an unbiased source. In this life, it is difficult enough to find any information on a controversial and/or passionate subject that is completely free of bias or is truly independent reasoning.
When it comes to the subject of God, you cannot get any more biased in this world. Either one believes in god[s] and/or follows religious teachings of one or more deity, or one absolutely does not believe in god[s] (which in and of itself is another belief system, the atheistic belief), or one is not convinced either way that there is/are god[s] (referred to as agnostic). My guess is that you, Karel, consider yourself as agnostic, because the subject still haunts your mind, but that you lean towards the atheistic argument.
Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to find an unbiased voice on the subject of the existence of God, because anyone who starts out unbiased eventually becomes biased once they are convinced either way in the matter. The question you must put forth to yourself is: How would you perceive such a source? Should you dismiss a once-unbaised source after it became baised? Would you classify that source as compromised and untrustworthy? If so, is that a fair judgement regarding these matters? How can someone who encouters divine-intervention to the knowledge that God exists remain unbiased?
However, another valuable way to research the matter is to find voices and accounts that were once baised in one way, and then later became biased to the opposite, and to research their reasonings and conclusions. Especially accounts of those who professed to be atheistic, and why, who later became devout believers in God, and why. NDE accounts, especially atheist-to-beliver accounts, can be extremely valuable in this matter.
One such account you already own — Sarah Menet’s book.
Her life growing up and into adulthood was so horrible, and so full of pain and bitter disappointment, that she eventually concluded that there could be no God, because He would not allow someone to suffer so mercilessly for no apparent reason. She thereby classified herself as an atheist. You already know about her experience when she died and visited the spirit world, and what she learned and witnessed while there. Although this account was never unbaised in either way, it is still very valuable because it demonstrates a complete turnaround in bias, based on overwhelming experience.
Actually, I know someone who is closely connected to Sarah. I could ask them to talk with her and either re-forward your questions to her, or present her with other questions you have about her experience and account in her book. You can either email them to me in the email I associate these posting with, or you can post them here and I can forward them.
Moving on, I wish to address the concept of an instruction manual. Consider the following fictional scenario which parallels our discussion:
Let’s suppose that in years past, I was a miserably hopeless smoker. For years I have tried this method, and that product — only to be disappointed over and over again. Finally, I was referred to an expert. In visiting with this expert, I was given an instruction manual on a process that would help cure me of my cravings for cigarettes. In fact, I was given two instruction manuals about this process that originated from two completely different sources independent of each other (both of which would exist without the other one), and both of them provided the same instructions and gave the same testimonials of how the process works and why it works. That two such independent instruction manuals exist, with the identical instructional process, was a situation convincing enough for me to look into the process. So I followed the instructions of the manuals exactly to the letter, only to discover that it actually works!
And then, I meet you, who is also a suffering smoker looking for a sure-fire way to quit. Like me, time and time again you have been bitterly disappointed, having delved out much time and energy looking for a true solution. Seeing a kindred spirit in you, I gladly share with you these two instruction manuals, and then testify of how I followed their instructions to the letter, and that I truly encounted the results they promise. I cannot prove to you that they worked for me, I can only share the experience I had, which I know is true. I know that the results I received were a direct result of following the instructions of those manuals — that due to my past experience in trying to quit, I knew that no other situation in my life could have coincidentally fascilitated the change in my smoking cravings — it could only have been the process outlined in the instruction manuals. And, as a result of following the manuals and overcoming my cravings, I now understand why it was so hard to quit.
However, because you never knew me as a smoker, only as a professed quitter, and because of your past bitter disappointments, you understandably look upon me and my testimony of these matters with great skepticism. You are to the point where, because I nor anyone else cannot provide indisputable proof that the proposed process can cure the cravings for smoking, you refuse to follow the contents of the instruction manuals and testimonies of it. The instructions in the manuals are not agreeable with what you deduct as your criteria for being a way to stop smoking. You have your own terms on which you will stop smoking, and short of those terms being met, you will not make the effort as put forth by these instruction manuals to stop no matter how miserable you are. You feel that, because of their bias, the instruction manuals and testimonies of them should not even be considered as a credible solution to stop smoking.
Substitute “instruction manuals” for “The Bible and The Book of Mormon”, substitute “smoker” with “someone who does not know God exists and His true nature,” and substitute “stop smoking” with “gaining a knowledge that God exists,” and you have our situation as we have been conversing about.
Lastly, I wish to comment on a some statements you made.
From two posts ago, you state: “It seems to me, at this point, that religion is merely something people choose based on cultural background and personal taste and needs. Some people are convinced by Christianity, others are convinced by Islam, etc.”
I forgot to give you credit for this observation in my last reply. There is a very strong cultural aspect to religion in general, and there is so much tradition and, indeed, whole societal foundations and concepts of what is right and wrong, what is moral and immoral, wrapped up in one religion or another. Therefore, all these cultural and societal aspects must be put to the side in the search for the existence of God, and in the search of the one true religion, and only a steadfast and deeply scrutinous study of the doctrines and instructions of confirmation of all religions should be considered — not legends, not traditions, not faniciful storytelling.
You say: “Again, how do you know this? It?s just a theory we humans have about god. And you get this from holy books. And then, how do you know what?s in those books is true? It?s like an endless loop, and you never get anywhere asking these questions because everything just has to be believed in without wanting too many answers.”
Yes, all this discussion loops around and around until an effort is made to ask God if He exists based upon the instruction of these holy books. At this point you do not know if these books are holy, or if these books are written by individuals who truly did converse with God. However, in order to stop with the looping unanswered questions, you must get to the point where you are willing to at least experiment by following the instructions of these books to see if their promises are true. This may seem paradoxical to you, but it can be done unbiasedly. When a scientist experiements something based upon a theory or a process he read about, is he thereby biased merely in the act of conducting the experiment? The scientist follows to the letter everything that he can in order to duplicate the findings of other scientists. Then he records the results. Is the act of trying to duplicate the findings of another scientist a biased act? No, but it demonstates that the scientist has enough curiosity in the reported results of another’s findings (aka “belief”) to attempt to duplicate another scientist’s work (aka “faith”) in order to conclude whether or not his conclusions are verifiable. As demonstrated in this example, “belief” and “faith” do not equal “biased.”
As for the example of the boy jumping into his father’s arms, your point is well taken. I wished to provide the story first to set up the situational parable afterwards. In the case of the story, it is a thousand times easier to jump having so much evidence to rely on — which is why it only took the boy 20 minutes to get the courage to jump. As to the situational parable I proposed based on the story, it can take us our entire lives (or never) to get to that point of acting upon the desire to know.
You state: “I can?t have faith and just believe in things without good verifiable reasons to do so. It would be like just believing one day, out of the blue, that somewhere below my back yard there?s a 100KG gold chunk buried. And then I start digging to find it just because I out of the blue, without any reason or evidence to back it up, think it must be there.”
A good and verifiable reason to do so would be to put your natural anxieties to rest and finally find out for yourself if God truly exists. Your back yard example is rather off-base and not very applicable, because how many people in this world would testify that one day they believed that there was gold in their back yard, so they went back there, dug a hole in their ground, and happened to find 100KG of gold in the process? Almost no one. However, how many people could testify that they did not know conclusively that there were plumbing and electrical wires under the ground in their back yard, but they believed that there could be, and then followed instructions from experts as to how to find them, took a shovel, dug holes, and discovered them? Many people could testify of that. And at the same time many could truthfully say that “I dug a bunch of holes in my yard and I NEVER found any plumbing or wiring” — because they did not follow expert instructions correctly on where and how to dig.
If many people can testify that they know that God exists, then you are perfectly capable of putting their testimonies to the test, by following to the letter the methods they used to gain their knowledge. You can follow the instructions of these two books that millions testify of as holy. You can do this while being unbiased the entire time. However, when you receive divine confirmation in your heart and mind, which is promised in these holy books to those who humble themselves to try the experiement, you can no longer be unbiased and must, from there on, be biased as to the existence of God.
You can contend that these answers are not good enough, and that these instructions do not meet your terms and criteria for what you feel are sufficient to know that God exists. However, this would be your opinion, your terms, and your criteria. You are still able to unbiasly follow the paths that others have taken to gain this knowledge. This is how I gained my knowledge, and why I testify over and over that what I have discussed with you is true.
Karel, you are your own person, and you make your own choices. You have an excellent analytical mind, and you ponder everything deeply. I urge you to put my words to the test — to put the teachings and instructions of the prophets to the test — to know for yourself that God exists, and that He loves us, and that He prepared this life on earth for us to endure physical, mental, and emotional trials that would greatly aid our progression throughout eternity. This life is short. Eventually, we will ALL know what is beyond the grave. I implore you to not stay immersed in your frustration and anxiety until that time — to know NOW that God truly exists!
Moroni 10:4,5
“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.”
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/10#4
Please, put forth the questions you wish to ask Sarah Menet, and I will forward them on to the person I know who is very close to her. I cannot guarantee a response, but I will do my part.
Thank you, once again, for reading my words and my testimony.
Karel:
Just after you e-mailed me your review of Sarah’s book, I posted it on a web site that I admin and asked if anyone would be willing to reply back to you. DCMarkham was kind enough to pick up the baton and run with it. Thus I have had the pleasure of watching your conversation develope over the past few days.
I would now like to jump into the fray and offer some of my own personal experiences in answering the very same questions your dealing with. If you have the time, I invite you to read the following story.
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This is my personal testimony of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and of the miracle that it brought to my life.
This is my personal testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the story of my gospel conversion. I wrote down this story at the request of my wife and sister in the summer/fall of 1990. They both felt that my conversion was so unique and offered such a powerful example of how the hand of the Lord could be seen in my life, that it was my duty and obligation to share it with other people whenever the opportunity arose. All of the details are taken from my personal daily journals that I kept while I was in the service. (it should be noted with some curiosity, that at no other time in my life have I ever kept a journal, save during this brief period of my life where having a written record of what happened would later prove invaluable in transcribing this story). The story you are about to read is true, this is how it really happened. I have done my very best to draw all of the facts and my personal thoughts & impressions directly from my daily journal entries.
This is my story…….
Growing up in Newport Beach California never seemed to lend itself to any particular religious growth. I have only known one Mormon family that I can recall of, and they never brought up the subject of religion when I visited them. They were simply friends of mine, who had several children I played with when I was 12, and a garage that looked like a grocery store. Beyond that I never thought of them any different from anybody else.
My first real encounter with the church occurred during the summer of 1977 at the age of 14, when I took a vacation trip with my grandmother to the Hawaiian Islands. On one of our many drives we happened across the LDS Temple and went inside to take a look. The Temple building was quite beautiful & the grounds were immaculate. Inside the Visitor Center they gave us a special tour and explained some of the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. While taking the tour a young Missionary approached me and asked if I would like to learn more about the Mormon Church when I returned back to the mainland. I gave the missionary my name and address, and told him that I would be glad to find out more about the church when I returned home.
It wasn’t long at all after I had returned from the trip that two young men on ten speed bicycles dressed very neatly in dark suits and white shirts showed up at my doorstep. I invited them in and received the first lesson. Over the next month or so they returned several times to my house and I received several of the remaining lessons. Unfortunately, being only 14 years old at the time, and not at all sure about what I was being told, I no longer looked forward to them coming to my house. For that matter neither did my grandmother, as she didn’t want her grandson to be converted to some religious sect. So she dis-invited the missionaries from returning to our house, and I never saw them again. Nevertheless, they did manage to leave a small seed in my mind that was to going to stay with me for the next 11 years.
During the following years I had many occasions to think about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I became very involved in the Disaster Preparedness movement, and at every corner there were always references to the Church. Over the years I had many opportunities to look into the Church, but I never did. The one time that I wanted to look into it I couldn’t find anyone who knew about it at the time. While I was attending the University of Colorado at Boulder something sparked my curriosity in the LDS church again. So I went to the campus interfaith group and asked about the Mormon members. They told me there weren’t any and that they didn’t have any idea who I should contact. The moment was lost and the thought passed from my head. (Years latter I would find that there was a rather large building directly across from the campus that was a LDS church educational facility. I passed it nearly every day I went to school and never one noticed the large sign in front of it. I suppose it just wasn’t time for me yet..) So the years simply passed on by.
Having graduated college in 1987 I joined the United States Army, and eventually arrived at Ft. Bragg N.C. in January of 1988. (When I joined the Army I committed myself to keeping an accurate journal of my daily events and thoughts. Were it not for that Journal, this testimony would have far fewer details). For the first time in my life I began to examine my concepts of religion, and began reading the Bible. They say there are no atheists in foxholes and I for one think thats true, but perhaps it was the jumping out of airplanes in the middle of stormy nights that got me started thinking about life in general. For a guy who was never actve in any church or inclined to any religious activities, one of the most religious experiances I had ever had in my life was standing in the doorway of an airplane in the middle of the night, starring out into the blackness with the wind rushing past my face waiting for a tap on my thigh telling me to take that first step out into the darkness. In moments like that you could hear and feel all the silent prayers of every soldier on that plane. There was never a time I made a jump that I didn’t utter a silent prayer to the Lord asking him to watch over me as I once again hurled my fragile body out into his hands. And I also managed to carry a small plastic copy of Psalm 23 (The Lord is my Shepard) in my shirt pocket on all of those jumps.
Right about this time another service member moved out of his room across the hall from mine and failed to close his door when he left. When I went over to check his room I noticed that the only thing left behind in the room was his Bible. For no particular reason I picked it up and took it back to my room. In the coming weeks I slowly read the New Testament from start to finish. While in the middle of this I began regularly attending church services for the first time in nearly 15 years. I visited several different churches and talked with their members in an attempt to find out which one was the right for me. I found that I enjoyed going to Church and associating with other Christians on a regular basis. This only lasted for a couple of months before I became disenchanted though. It slowly became clear to me that there was something missing from these services that I was attending. There was a lack of fellowship or brotherhood. We all came together for an hour a week and that was it.
What I was looking for had to have much more depth than this. I always looked forward to going to Sunday services, but felt somehow let down afterwards. Somehow there had to be a way to bridge the gap between the rest of my life and Sunday mornings. I wanted to have the same feeling of spirit throughout the rest of the week, and to be actively involved and participating in my religion.
In May I participated in a long field exercise that gave me the chance to read the scriptures every day out in the woods by myself. For the first time I began to understand who and what Jesus Christ was, and what it really meant to be a Christian. For years I had always thought of myself as a Christian, but had never really known what it meant to be a Christian. I was the type that had always considered religion to be a matter of personal philosophy. Something best avoided in any organized manner. If religion was such a wonderful thing, then why had so many people been slaughtered by those who had ‘Divine Knowledge’. This was a period of great thought, a time when I began to re-examine many of my personal beliefs. The more that I read and studied, the more that I began to realize how very little I truly knew. The Lord must have seen that I was now ready to receive his true word, and be returned to his flock. For once again two Mormon Missionaries came into my life.
On a Saturday afternoon in mid-July, while I was at a friends house working on some scuba gear, two young missionaries rang the doorbell. My friend invited them into his house and we had a long discussion about the nature of God and about the Christian Religion from the LDS point of view. We talked for the better part of 3 hours, before they had to leave for another appointment. They told me many things about the Mormon church that I had never known before. I can honestly say that I recalled little or nothing at all about the discussions I had had with the other missionaries 11 years before. At the time this was simply another exercise in religious argument, and I loved a good debate. Neither myself, nor my friend had any real intent or interest in pursuing what they were telling us, but it made for a great afternoon’s discussion.
Over a month went by and once again I found myself at my friend’s house working on the same scuba gear on a Tuesday night, when to our great surprise a different set of missionaries appeared at the doorstep. Again he welcomed them into his house. But this time my friend made it very clear that he had no intention of being converted, but that they might put their energies to better use by concentrating on me instead, and so they did. We talked for several hours this time and in much more depth. My friend challenged them on several of the points they brought up. He was quick to make them look up all of their claims in the Bible, and wouldn’t accept anything from the Book of Mormon. Much to his consternation they did quite a good job. His only reply was that they had somehow misinterpreted the true meaning of the scriptures, not that he could be wrong. Before they left for their other appointments they invited me to come to a church welcome-home party for a returning missionary. I wasn’t really very interested in going, but my buddy kept egging me on to go and enjoy the free dinner, so I eventually decided to go. They left me with a copy of the Book of Mormon, and asked only that I earnestly read it, ponder over what I had read, and pray to know if it was true. I told them that I would think about it, (not wanting to make any commitments one way or the other) and thanked them for the invitation to the party and the afternoon’s discussion. (If it hadn’t been for my friend’s unending sarcasm and constant teasing about what a great Mormon I would make, I would never have gone, and the course of my life would have been very different indeed. To this day he holds himself responsible for my joining the church).
With more than a little uncertainty I showed up for the welcome-home party. A little bit nervous about just standing around in a room full of people I didn’t know, in a Church I knew little about, I began venturing off down the corridors and reading the various announcements and posters on the walls. I quickly began to realize what this church considered to be important. I found a Genealogy room, several different classrooms all set up to teach the different age groups various lessons in Christianity, a Relief Society, the Bishops office, and a Library filled with educational materials. No sooner had I returned to the main area than the two Missionaries appeared and began introducing me to some of the members of their Church.
Never before had I met people that were so genuinely friendly, and who so heart-fully welcomed me (a complete stranger) to be part of their celebration. After the festivities ended I managed to gather 6 different missionaries for an impromptu discussion. This talk lasted several hours, and finally took us to one of their homes, where I received my first semi-formal lesson about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Every time they would bring up a different part of the lesson I would begin questioning them on it. I challenged most everything that they told me, and constantly wanted to know why?. My most common statement was ‘show me where it says that in the Bible’. And what amazed me was that every time they were able to do so. Many of questions and challenges were answered with direct quotations of scripture, most of which they had learned by heart. At the end of the discussion they asked me to say a closing prayer, and invited me to attend chapel services with them on Sunday.
Sunday morning I showed up determined to find out what this was all about. I thought that all the discussions and talks in the world didn’t amount to anything if the Sunday services didn’t tie it all together in a harmonious way. The best way I can describe my feelings about that service are to say that it completely amazed me. Never had I been to anything that even vaguely approached it. First there was no minister to speak of: no old fatherly man dressed in robes, no one holding a Bible and walking back and forth telling the congregation how to achieve eternal salvation. But rather a young lady who was simply a member, who stood before an unadorned chapel, and shared with us her personal testimony of the living Jesus Christ. I found out that it was the responsibility of the membership to keep the word of Christ alive and well. Not that of just one appointed man, but of every man and woman. The Bishop acted more as a daily administrator, and gave the congregation a direction or theme for each meeting.
There were other things that were far different from churches I had been to in the past. Most notably there were many children of all ages. It actually seemed as if the chapel was filled with infants and toddlers and youngsters of all ages. This was a family oriented church, where the children were not hustled away into small rooms for Sunday school, while their parents attended the real services. Rather everyone attended the same service together, and then went off to the individual classes most suited for their age. I also noticed that the taking of the sacrament was a much more important event than in the other churches. Many people around me were truly in prayerful thought during this time, and fully respected the importance of what the sacrament was meant to be. The Sacrament was blessed and passed by the young men of the congregation, not the bishop. They also took the time to open and close each part of the service with a prayer offered by one of the members.
Afterwards I attended an Investigators Class with several other people that were considering joining church. The next event was the Priesthood meeting. This was yet another thing that was totally unlike anything I had experienced before. To think that this Church fully expected every able -bodied man to take up the Priesthood was beyond my imagination. This was something reserved for the specially chosen few, or so I thought. Again a member lead the meeting and I quickly learned that the Mormon Priesthood in not at all the same as the rest of Christianity views it. Throughout the religion the family rings out as the most important unit in life, and that for the most part all of the great things a person can hope to achieve will come to them through their family. And so it is that the Priesthood doesn’t so much concern itself with instructing the main body of the church (though it clearly accomplishes this), as it does with raising a truly Christian family, and keeping God alive in our homes.
The next thing that happened that Sunday was destined to change my life. For looking back on it now, I can see that the hand of the Lord had begun to guide me. You see, they took me to the Genealogy room and showed me how to trace my ancestors. For most people this would have been a simple task. Tracing the last three generations or so of your family would simply require that you talk to your parents or your grandparents for a start, and then continue on from there. The problem for me was that my mother and father had been divorced when I was three, and had not remained in touch with one another. For that matter I all but knew nothing whatsoever about my father or his side of my family, and my mother had nothing to offer. Genealogy had always been something that had intrigued me, and this seemed like the golden opportunity to finally pursue it. Though I had no information on my Father whatsoever, I nevertheless dove into it head-first and decided to do as much as I could on my mother’s side of the family.
No sooner than had I began gathering information than I began to find out about and meet relatives I had never heard of. During the next two weeks I made several trips to the genealogy room to pick up supplies, as I seemed to be quickly exhausting everything they so willingly gave me. I mailed off question filled letters to dozens of near and distant relatives trying to fill in all of the holes on my Pedigree Chart. I soon found myself consumed with this project and spending a great deal of my free time pursuing it. The many bits and pieces quickly began falling into place, and responses to my letters came back filled with more data than I knew what to do with. The only problem was that the top of my master sheet remained starkly bare, with but my father’s name, and no more. I asked everyone in my family for information on my father, any clue that might lead me to where he might be. Then, quite out of the blue, my mother mentioned that she recalled someone having said that my father had joined the Mormon Church and moved to Utah many years ago.
During the next week I attended my second Sunday service, had my room burglarized for some $3500.00 worth of personal property, and was informed that I would be spending Christmas in Central America. I also managed to read the ‘Principles of the Gospel’ and many other booklets that the missionaries provided me at my request. On the 7th of Sept. I received my second lesson, this one lasted nearly 5 hours and didn’t end till midnight. The following night I intended on receiving the third lesson, but instead was given the opportunity to help move in a newly arriving missionary. By now Elder Hippard and Elder Bye were fast becoming personal friends of mine, as well as my teachers. It was that night that I decided to join the Church. Had I received some divine revelation that this was in fact the true church of the Lord, that I should forsake all others for it, that it alone possessed the Lord’s authority on earth?? No, nothing particularly special took place to convince me to join. I simply felt it was the right church to join, and committed myself to doing so.
On the 10th of Sept. I flew home to Calif. for a week’s vacation to visit my family and gather more genealogical information from my relatives. The next 72 hours would see the loss of someone I have held very dear for seven years, and the finding of someone I never knew. Sunday morning I attended service with my girlfriend at her Lutheran Church. I had mentioned a few weeks earlier that I was looking into the Mormon Church. She told me that though she had several friends who were Mormons, and whom she considered to be good people, that the religion was a cult and that I should beware. When her service had ended I talked with her minister for an hour or so about his religion and the differences between it and the LDS Church. As fate would have it he grew up in Salt Lake, and was very well versed in Mormon theology. To my surprise he was not at all anti-Mormon, but rather a well informed man who freely choose to join a different church. After this very informative discussion my girlfriend and I drove up to Los Angeles to visit my Aunt and get some Genealogical Papers she had for me.
My Aunt turned out to be a storehouse of information that had been collected by many different people in our family over the years. I could now solidly trace a part of my family back to the 14th Century. We spent many hours with my Aunt gathering everything that she could give me, and then left for home. On the way home we drove past the Los Angeles Temple, and I decided to stop in and take advantage of being so close to a temple. I invited my girlfriend to come and take the tour with me, and find out more about the church for herself. She declined my offer, and became noticeably uncomfortable just being on the temple grounds. While I was waiting for the tour to begin we talked about the church, and it became all to clear just how prejudiced she was. She could offer no substantial reason for her thoughts about it, but remained vehement in her convictions against it. The tour was very nice. It explained everything the average person might want to know about the church. Its history, foundation and theology. Halfway through the tour I began to feel guilty for leaving her sitting out in the car by herself, so I left early and went out to talk with her.
I don’t think she could have gotten off of the Temple Grounds any faster than she did. The very moment I sat down in the car she scolded me for spending so much time on the tour, and immediately drove off the grounds. She actually believed that this was an evil place, and just being there was sacrileges. During the drive home we talked and it became very clear that what ever future we had together would be utterly destroyed if I joined the LDS Church. She would show absolutely no tolerance whatsoever of me joining it. Though we had known one an other for over six years, not once during those years had we ever talked about religion. I would have never guessed that her reaction would be so bitter. And so I lost something very dear me that day.
No sooner had I chosen the Lord over a worldly possession than my mother suddenly remembered another clue to my father’s whereabouts. She remembered having seen his stepbrother eight years ago, and that he had been the head of security at a local business. She called and asked if anyone there might remember him. No one there had ever heard of him, but they told us to call back tomorrow and talk to another employee that had worked there much longer. Sure enough the next day’s call yielded someone who knew him, and knew where he had moved to. A call to Directory Assistance in Arizona gave me his phone number. After several hours of trying I finally got through to my Step Uncle Danny. Though I had never heard of him, nor met him, he knew me when I was much younger.
When I asked him where my father was, he was sad to say that they didn’t keep in touch much anymore, as they had a falling out some time ago. Though he looked through his phone book and address book, he could find no listing for his stepbrother, my father. While we were talking on the phone and just getting to know one an other, his wife stumbled across his mother’s funeral notice. On the notice was a phone number that had been my father’s number some years ago when their mother had passed away. He gave me the number and wished me the best of luck in tracking him down.
I called directory assistance for the city he had last known my father to be in to see if the number matched up, and it did. Though many years had passed, my father had not left that last address. With the greatest of expectation I dialed the number and waited for my father to pick up the phone. I hadn’t any idea what I was going to say to him, after all I had only met the man once in my life that I could recall, and that was when I was much younger. Instead of him answering the phone, a young lady picked up the phone. I told her who I was, and that I wanted to speak to my father. To my great disappointment she told me that my father was in Wyoming fighting the fire at Yellowstone National Park and would not be returning home in the immediate future.
As the two of us talked I found out that she was the wife of my stepbrother. She gave me a mailing address, and I was satisfied that at some time in the future I would be able to get in contact with my father. I felt that I had succeeded in my task, and was fully content with my level of accomplishment. No sooner had I said good-bye and hung up the phone, than it rang. She had wasted no time in calling some of the other members of my father’s family to tell them of my call. This time it was my step sister that was calling me. The first thing she did was to ask me when I was going to come up for a visit. I told her that quite by chance I had made previous plans to be in her mountain town that evening to look at a lodge that was for sale. A simple adjustment of plans and I was on my way to meet a part of my family that only minutes before I didn’t even know existed.
When I arrived she welcomed me into her house as though I had always been a part of the family. I quickly found out that this whole side of my family had been members of the LDS Church for the past 10 years. We talked for many hours, into the wee hours of the morning. Her husband was with my father in Wyoming, so she was home with her four children, her brother & his wife. I had never met someone who I felt so close to so fast. Before the night was over I had acquired a whole new family, not replacing my old one, but making it complete. She related all of the events that had happened over the years, and I was allowed to participate in my first Family Home Evening with her young children that evening. I can’t begin to explain what it is like to grow up as an only child with a single parent. For as many years as I can recall I have wanted to have a brother or a sister. Someone special to share things with. Suddenly I had what I had wished for, and much more. Through all of the years they had known about me, it was only I that did not know of them. My sister shared a great deal of her youth with me that night. We spent hours going through the family photo-albums, and reading old journals. As the night passed by I slowly felt myself becoming a full part of that family. And I began to realize to what a great extent that I had always been there to begin with. I doubt that there is a way to make up for all of the lost years that we could have shared together, but I certainly look forward to all the those that we are going to be together through.
The next morning she was able to contact my father, and we spoke for the first time in over 12 years, only the 2nd time I can remember in my life. He was utterly amazed to hear from me, but very pleased none the less. During our short conversation he promised me that he would fly out to North Carolina for my baptism. He assured me that fire or no fire he would do whatever it took to be present for my Baptism. The day that I was reunited with my father in Heaven, was also the day that I was reunited with my father on earth.
Upon returning to North Carolina I went by the church and stopped in at the genealogy room to get more supplies and share this story with those who were present. It wasn’t until that moment, when I had told someone else about this very strange series of coincidences, that I realized it was no coincidence at all. At that moment I realized a miracle had happened right before my eyes and I hadn’t even known it. By the time I was able to get together with the Missionaries to tell them this story, they already knew about it. It seems that word of things like this spreads very fast. That night as I received my third lesson I began to see how the hand of the Lord had been guiding me the whole time.
On Sunday Sept. 26th I attended Sacrament services after several weeks of absence. This was my first Fast Sunday, and the testimonies that were presented during the service were especially meaningful. It was a very moving experience to listen to the other members tell their personal experiences of knowing the Lord. I learned that one Sunday a month, Fast Sunday, is set aside that the members might bear their own testimonies to the other members. After Priesthood was over we came back to the barracks to talk with one of my friends that had asked me several questions regarding the church.
We talked with my friend for about an hour, and for the first time I began to realize what I had in fact learned from the missionaries, and what was still not completely clear. This experience only served to reinforce my belief that even though the LDS Church is a missionary church and seeks to spread the word of the Lord as much as possible, that there is clearly a second reason for sending these young men and women out on missions. Namely, that of building up a large body of the church that is well versed in its Doctrine and Scripture, and that are fully able to instruct all of the membership.
Nothing comes for free in this life, or so I have been told. Though I may have been blessed with a miracle only last week, I was now challenged to see just how strong my new faith was. For though only a few weeks ago my mother was completely receptive of my investigation into the church, she has now told me that if I join I will be damned to Hell and never allowed to enter the Kingdom of God in Heaven. Someone has in the course of only a few short days provided her with a wealth of disinformation and lies concerning the Mormon religion. In all of my life I do not ever recall my mother as having displayed any conviction regarding religion, other than a general label of Christianity, and as having attended church when she was much younger. Now completely out of the blue comes this dire warning that my eternal soul is in great and grievous danger should I continue my association with the church. Two days later I received yet another letter that was stuffed full of more Anti-Mormon Literature. At my mother’s request I thoroughly read everything that she gave me.
There were several things that aroused my attention, and I brought them to the Missionaries for explanation. On weds the 28 of Sept. I spent 5 hours with the Missionaries responding to every allegation that my mother had made, and referencing every statement in the little booklets that she had sent me. I was very pleased to find out that the majority of it was based on various statements of church members, and not on any scripture. Those that were based on scripture were in fact correct, and agreed with what I had been taught in the preceding months. I found that the two Elders did a tremendous job of looking up supporting scripture to combat the overwhelming majority of accusations against the church. Their knowledge here has proved invaluable in responding to my mother’s statements.
When my mother sent the first packet of these Anti-Mormon Booklets I strongly suspected that my ex-girlfriend was responsible. But I had absolutely no way of proving it. With the second batch there was a small note from her to my mother. Why she had taken it upon herself to set my mother against me by providing this garbage to her I don’t know. If she is so concerned about me why hasn’t she just sent them directly to me?.
The Elders had invited me to come and meet their Mission President the next day, and I agreed that if I could find the time I would be glad to do so. I thought this would be an excellent opportunity to meet someone who should really be able to answer any question put to him. As coincidence would have it, my Sgt. gave me the afternoon off quite unexpectedly. And I drove to the church at the appointed time to meet the Mission President. When I arrived the church was locked up tight, with no sign of anyone being there. So I drove back to the missionaries apartment hoping to find them there, they were gone.
Once again I drove back to the Church. But still no one was there. This time I gave up and headed for home. On the way home I stopped in a Christian book store looking for a book on the Dead Sea Scrolls. We had been talking about these and I wanted a first hand look. While looking through the various books, I came across a shelf of Anti-Mormon Literature. I glanced at a few books and then continued on my way. The book I had wanted wouldn’t be in for another week or so.
On my way home I stopped for lunch, and while eating I began to feel this strange compulsion to go back to the book store and purchase one of the books that I had glanced at. For no particular reason I drove back and bought ‘The God Makers’. I spent the rest of the day and all of the night reading this book. Up until now none of the literature that I had read really made much of a case against the church. This book changed that entirely. This book didn’t hold anything back, and did everything possible to destroy the church, its foundations, its history, and painted a picture of a secret Satanic Cult cleverly disguised as a Christian Church.
For the first time I began to very seriously doubt that I should be joining this church. If the things that this book alleged were in fact based on reality, I didn’t want to have anything whatsoever to do with it. The farther I got into the book the more concerned I became. I started sharing the most startling stories with some of my friends in the barracks, and they were just as amazed as I. How could it be that A church so well known for its upstanding members could be so heavily stepped in Satanism, without anyone ever finding out?. On Friday the 29th I went back to that book store and rented two movies; The God Makers, and The Mormon Dilemma.
But I also decided to give the Missionaries a chance to defend themselves, so I stopped by there house and invited them to come and watch these movies with me and give their comments as it went along. They agreed initially, but upon checking with their President they were denied permission to watch them. Now the fact that they were not allowed to watch these movies really disturbed me. What was it that their President was trying to shield them from?. Did he know that this movie held some truths that his young Missionaries shouldn’t be exposed to lest they might lose their faith? This bothered me more than anything that I had read. Before I left they gave me three pro-church videos to balance out the night.
Myself and some other friends spent the night watching the movies. The God Makers turned out to be a joke. It was so far fetched, and so poorly made, I couldn’t imagine how anyone could believe it. The Mormon Dilemma was much better, and did bring up some very important points that the Missionaries would have to answer to. All in all it was not nearly so damming as the book, but still left me with many doubts about whether or not the Mormons really were a Christian Church or not.
Saturday the 30th was the 1st day of the General Conference, and I had agreed to come weeks ago. I was really hoping that this would give me an inside look at what really went on inside of the church. This was a program made by the church just for church members. If they were going to deceive me now, they would have to deceive all of their members as well.
What I saw and felt that day as I sat in the chapel was one of the most Christian experiences of my life. Regardless of what the book, the movies, or all of the pamphlets said, this had to be a Christian church. The speakers spoke with true conviction, knowing that what they said was in fact the word of our Lord, and not some Satanic Cult. I watched three sessions that day, and left feeling a 1000% better about the Church. I was also given a book entitled ‘the Truth about the God Makers’. Though I knew I would read every page of it for my mind commanded me to answer ever charge that has been raised, in my heart I knew that it made no difference whatsoever.
That evening I called my mother to try and talk her into watching the nationally televised portion tomorrow. Ready to be assaulted with a barrage of questions and accusations about the Mormon Church, I was instead greeted with a warm hello and ‘I love you’. It seems that since my mother had written me that terrible letter she had come into contact with some practicing Mormons in California, and they had begun to explain to her how the religion actually works. Instead of being angry and mad at me, she was warm and loving. She asked many questions, and requested that I send her things to read on it for herself. Once again the Lord had tested my faith, and when the test was over everything was returned to as it had been.
I arrived early for the second day and sat in the parking lot reading over ‘The Truth about the God Makers’ seeking solid answers to many of the questions I had concerning it. My gut feelings about the Church were quickly reaffirmed, and ‘The God Makers’ debunked. The Conference was a special opportunity for me to take a look inside of the Church from the perspective of a member, rather than that of an investigator. I found it to be very re-assuring, and completely in-line with all of the things that I had been taught, or had come to expect. Mostly it served to reinforce my growing conviction in the Church.
That evening I had my 5th discussion and set a date for my baptism. As always I said the closing prayer for the evening. This has become almost a tradition, one of the Missionaries says the opening prayer and I venture forth the closing prayer. This evening was a little bit different. For the first time in ten years I actually felt something special as I said the closing prayer this evening. It was as though I were spinning around and moving while I was saying the prayer. I had only experienced this once before, 10 years ago during my first set of lessons. After everything was over Elder Bye cautioned me to be on the look-out for Satin. He warned me that he would work his hardest to pull me away from the Church now that I had made a firm commitment. He asked the Lord that I might be protected from Satin’s Darts.
As I drove back to the barracks I began to feel a strange sense of happiness descend upon me. I was suddenly reassured that what I had done was in fact the right thing. I felt very good about this evening, and was in especially good spirits all the way back. I think that this evening was probably the first time that I had experienced the power of the Holy-Ghost.
On weds evening my father called me at the barracks. That he had managed to track down the correct number at 11:00pm was no small feat. He was calling to let me know that he had made reservations for himself and most of his family to come to my baptism on the 15th. I was really rather surprised to hear from him, let alone to find out that the whole family would be traveling across the country for my Baptism. We talked for some time that evening. It was really the first time we had ever had a one on one talk. Until that moment I really wasn’t sure if he was going to come out, or if he had just said he was going to come out. Once again the power of the Gospel showed itself to me. That someone would travel 3000 miles for a baptism seemed ridiculous to me. But my father had a much better understanding of the significance of that event than I did.
Thursday marked the end of my 6 basic lessons about the Church. This was sort of a review and rap up of all of the others. By now it was clear to me that I looked forward to seeing the Missionaries not only to receive my lessons, but also for the discussions we had afterwards about the Bible and Biblical History. I also found myself just looking forward to their companionship, and the opportunity to get away from the Barracks with all of its less than desirable influences. During the past few weeks they have made a strong attempt to introduce me to many different members, and have allowed me to come along on a few home visits. The people that we visited made me feel much more like a part of their family than like a visitor. Most importantly though, they have all invited me back several times. I have never seen a church where the membership can make a perfect stranger feel like one of the family.
During the past week I had begun sending my mother several different pieces of Church Literature. Each day I would mail her a few pamphlets on different subjects. On Sat I called her and we talked about what I had sent her. She told me that she had really enjoyed all of the things that I had sent her, and was looking forward to the Missionaries stopping by to discuss things in person. She also wished me all of her happiness for my upcoming baptism. She had completely changed her opinion of the Church in the last two weeks.
Sunday brought the reality that in only a week I would become a full member of the Church. I was fitted for my baptismal clothing, and had to chose the various speakers for my ceremony. I visited two different members this afternoon. One for an afternoon meal, and the other for a pumpkin decorating party. Everyone expressed their happiness that I had decided to join the Church, and planed on coming to my Baptism. So many people have had a part in my deciding to join, and all had asked to come to my Baptism, that I expected there to be quite a gathering. And to make things all the better, the Ward was having its Harvest Festival right after my ceremony.
One of the last things that I was taught about was the Law of Tithing. Being on a very fixed income I had expressed my concern at being able to meet this commandment. I was not at all sure how I was going to be able to take out 10% of my monthly income and still manage to pay all of my bills. I had discussed this several times with the Missionaries over the weekend. On Tuesday morning a letter arrived in the mail. It contained a refund check that amounted to exactly 10% of my take home pay. The set of coincidences that has occurred to me in examining this Church never seems to end. Regardless of my problem or challenge, the answer always manifests itself in the clearest of ways.
Weds evening brought my interview with the Bishop. My father had asked that he might confer the Aronic Priesthood on me after my Baptism. The Bishop and I talked for an hour or so. Mostly he wanted to know if I understood the duties and responsibilities of the Priesthood, and whether or not I had developed a testimony of Christ. I conveyed to him all of the marvelous things that have happened to me in the last few months, and told him that I had a strong conviction in the trueness of the Church. He seemed pleased with my understanding, and told me that there was no reason why my father shouldn’t be able to confer the Priesthood to me.
Right after his interview myself and four missionaries went to a young lady’s (Susan) hotel room. She had called the Bishop’s office and asked if a Priest could come over and give her a blessing of comfort. When we arrived we found out that her husband had just called to tell her that he was divorcing her. It just happened that her job had sent her to my area on a temporary basis, and the next week she was returning to Virginia. The four Missionaries gave her the requested blessing, and she asked me to say a closing prayer as well. The faith of the members never ceases to amaze me. She knew that I was not a member, and yet she wanted me to offer a special prayer for her in her time of need. I did so, and felt it was I who was receiving the blessing, and not her.
We all drove back to the Church, as I still had to have my Baptismal Interview. Unlike the Priesthood interview, this was a more organized interview. The senior missionary had a list of questions from the 6 lessons. He asked me how I felt and what I thought about all of the things that I had been taught. Whether the Book of Mormon was true, if I would support the Prophet, pay my Tithes and attend services regularly. It would seem impossible to fail such an interview.
The other thing we discussed that night was the nature of the Chapel. I have never thought that the Chapel Building was a very religious place. Unlike some other Christian Churches, there is no particular feeling of reverence when you sit alone inside of an LDS Chapel. It is a rather sterile meeting place, with no adornments that belie its true purpose. True, on Sunday when the members are gathered there this all changes. But it does not strike me as a place of solitude to come to contemplate the greater questions in life. The others thought that this was not the case at all, that it was more a matter of conditioning. Possibly I had come to expect that a Chapel had to look a certain way, and I had lost the true feeling or presence of the Holy-Ghost.
Thursday the 13th of October was one of those days that you can never forget during your entire life. Today I met my father. As if the fact that I had found him and been able to talk with him were not a great enough blessing in themselves, the Lord saw fit to bring him and his family all the way across the Country so that he could personally Baptize me. This was a moment that I had thought about for a very long time. Where I had once been an only child to a single parent, I now had 2 brothers, a sister, 2 nephews, 2 nieces, a father, and a very special lady that can go by no other name but ‘mom’.
We spent that evening talking with one another till the wee hours of the morning. I don’t think that it will ever be possible to make up the lost years we never shared together, but I am certainly looking forward to the many years we will share together in the future. The next day my Brother arrived from Utah, and the two of us spent that night getting to know each other. How rare an occasion that a man can inherit an entire family, and have a feeling of instant oneness with them all. I was completely accepted into their family as though I had always been a part of it, just not there physically. The love that I had felt among the members of the Church now manifest itself upon me from my own family. Who just like the Church members were complete strangers to me, but took me in as one of their own.
On Saturday my Father Baptized me into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And on Sunday my Father conveyed the Aronic Priesthood upon me. Over the course of this weekend I had met and begun new relationships with both of my Fathers. My Father in Heaven, and my Father on Earth. What more could a man ask for.
A few weeks later I once again met Susan. This time it was at Sunday services. I hadn’t noticed her at first, but the Missionaries pointed her out to me, and re-introduced me to her. Susan and I sat together throughout the rest of the services that day. As services came to a close I asked her if she would like to go out for lunch. We spent the rest of the day and early evening together talking about a great many things and just enjoying each other’s company. Never before had I ever met someone quite like her. It was as if we had known each other for years & years. We quickly found that we had a great deal in common, even though our backgrounds were totally different. If there is a Pre-Mortal existence where we all lived with each other, it seems clear that Susan and I surly must have known one an other.
Knowing that I was to spend Christmas alone on Ft. Bragg, Susan invited me to come and spend it with her family instead. Once again I was struck with the love that the membership shows for others. I was a total stranger to all, and yet they opened their home and their hearts to me. This was an entirely new experience for me. Susan comes from a family of nine brothers and sisters. Where I come from a family of only one. Her family lives in a small farming community in the mountains of North Carolina. I found their Christmas to be much more family and Christ centered than any I had had before. Susan and I traveled back to Virginia for New Years Eve together. Had this been an incredible year ?. I should say so, but there was still more to come.
As time passed Susan and I passed from church friendship to very close personal friends. As the months passed by me in 1989 I found myself spending quite a few weekends with Susan and attending Church services with her on Sundays. Easter Weekend found me once again with her in Virginia. Her family had come out for a visit over the weekend. By now it had become obvious that we were falling in love with one an other. In June we left the United States for a 32 day trip to the Sinai Desert in Egypt, and Jerusalem in Israel. Since I had joined the Army I had used up very little of my vacation time and so was abligated to take some major time off. My commanding officer made a yearly trip to Egypt and had invited me to come along with him to go SCUBA Diving. On this trip Sue and I had the opportunity to get to know one an other as very few people ever will. We shared many special times together, seeing each other at our worst and our best moments. Our days in Jerusalem were by far and away the most special, and spiritual. To walk were our Lord had walked leaves one with an unforgettable impression upon your soul. There is something very special about that ancient city. Something that seems to call to a man’s soul, reminding you of how very real the scriptures are.
We returned in July to the U.S., and on that evening I asked Susan to marry me. We both agreed that it would be a Temple wedding. This meant that we would have to wait many extra months as we both had to prepare to go to the Temple, but this somehow seemed a small price to pay for all of the blessings we would surely receive for doing so. We were married and sealed for all time and eternity in the Washington DC temple in February of 1990, two years, almost to the day from when I had found that old tattered bible laying on the floor in the room across the hall.
I guess I could right off almost all of the things that had happened to me as pure coincidence, but I would be lying to myself, and you as well. In 1992 Sue and I were greatly blessed by the Lord with twins, a boy and a girl. Eight years later, in 2000 we had another son and in 2001 we had another daughter.
Had I not happened across the Temple in Hawaii, had I not joined the Army, had I never found that Bible, had I not been at my friends house on just that night, had I not been there a month later, had I not been interested in Genealogy, had the members not been so open and loving, had my father not been a member, had the Missionaries not been so willing, had I not been in the church for my interview on that night, had there not been anyone else to answer the phone call, had any of these or a dozen other things not happened I would not be where I am today. Are all of these simply coincidences, I leave them to you to decide. As for me I offer you this story to show that miracles do happen in our lives when we allow them to. The Lord is seeking an opportunity to enter into each of our lives, if we will but allow him to do this, surely he will pour out so many blessings that there shall not be room enough to receive them.
And lastly I leave you with this, I seal this story with my current personal testimony in the strongest and most direct manner possible, 14 years after I wrote this.
I know that God, the Eternal Father, lives!
I bear witness to the divinity and reality of his living resurrected son Jesus Christ, who leads his church today, and once again reveals the will of the Father to this, our generation through his living prophet whom he has chosen.
I know that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten son of the Almighty, even our elder brother.
I bear my testimony to the gift & power of the Holy Ghost.
I have seen with my own eyes the eternal power of the Priesthood and watched it change the lives of those that have accepted the Lord’s invitation and welcomed him into their hearts and souls..
Brother, Christopher Michael Parrett
Karel, your skepticism could be a very positive attribute depending on how you use it. Your questions are very necessary even if they range from common to outrageous. To summarize what Jesus taught:
Ask
Seek – (research)
Knock – (action)
It seems as though your asking has already benefitted your knowledge much in a relatively short amount of time
However, I have my scepticism when it comes to feelings, especially since there is no way to prove where it comes from, and if it really is a feeling coming from the holy ghost.
Humans have a great mind, and can believe in whatever they want and can imagine whatever they like. Like a child having an imaginary friend. Anything great or influential to someone, can leave him or her in a state of mind where that person has the most wonderful feelings. It can be a book, a movie, another person (being in love) etc. Believing the things in the bible, can have the same effect on someone, it doesn’t have to be something like the holy ghost to give you that feeling. Even if that was possible, how could one ever really know where the feeling comes from? It could be just a natural feeling made by your own mind and body.
To answer this insightful question …. the first step toward spiritual verification is verifying one’s spiritual existence. There are a few ways to verify it, but to ensure the spirit’s separated feeling from just mind and body-mind influences, I generally use the spiritual yoga approach involving the seven chakras. Why? Because with this one can literally *feel* the spirit without touching. From there one can identify what spiritual activity feels like, and separate that feeling of a mental euphoria. Alternatively, there’s also the good deed approach – when your body is tired, your mind drained, but you still feel good inside after doing a good deed – again from that one can separate spiritual feeling from mental feeling.
I’d need another good source, or would need to get the info from god himself.
Indeed, no source can equal one’s personal experience … hence the Knocking in the A.S.K.
Why could it not have been done by satan for example? It could easily have been faked by him too. Just like the theory that evil spirits can fake being a dead relative when you go to a psyhic. There is no way to truly verify this.
So the only option is to assume her experience is really what she says it is, and then judge it based on that. But even then, you have lots of inconsistencies and questions.
Again, this is a very important question, because we know that the adversary (satan) offers counterfeits to almost every thing. There are spiritual experiences from satan just like there is black magic and other dark occult phenomenon. The quickest answer I can give is from Galatians 5:22-23 in the New Testament. Contrast the spirit of peace, love, joy, and hope … with fear, cold, despair, and stress / unease. But even knowing these, the deciphering may not be so simple … it may also require prayer and fasting.
And about that example of the instruction manual, I still think our situation is a little different. For one, god is supposed to have inspired that what is written in the bible. For me to follow what is written there, I want to be sure he exists. At least for the manuals to stop smoking, I can do some basic verification and the things involved are physical and real.
Understood, yet as we obey the manuals (even temporarily) we show our faith, and therefore get to know him more spiritually (Hebrews chapter 11). Science also shows smoking isn’t beneficial, so that could be a safe beginning, though extremely difficult.
As for your suggestion for experimenting, I did. I know what it?s all about. I used to go to church long ago when I was younger, then studied with Jehovah’s witnesses etc. I know what to expect. And it’s not satisfying because it’s all based on faith and one’s personal feelings etc.
In short, not all Christian churches are created equal. Many do not realize that faith is an action word, a verb (see James 2:14-18). Regardless, logic and reasoning should have a strong part of both the scriptures and the Church’s teachings. Without such is dangerous ground.
And with regard to the 100KG gold chunk example, I would still be able to verify what those other people have found with regards to wiring and plumbing. I can’t do it in the case of religion. Once again, it is something personal, all based on faith and feelings. And I have many doubts about that.
In a world of only deception, I cannot rely on people to tell me about religion. If there is any truth to it, it should be able to stand on itself and validate itself. None of the religions can do this. What I see is religion being abused by people all over the world to create fights and for political reasons. I see religious leaders abusing it to forward their agenda. Even politicians do so.I see religion being used to split people up in groups and play them against eachother. I see fake prophets using religion to fool people.
I greatly applaud your not relying on others’ opinions! It is what has misled the masses, as you already have witnessed in politics. Obviously satan encourages abuse of religion, and kings and politicians only gain from it. As a general rule, religion should NEVER be used for political gain, or even personal gain, period. A great method to see whether a “prophet” (or politician) is true or false, is in their fruits (Matt 7:15-20). Do they seek to make money out of their message? Are they doing their best to help others like the poor? Where does the money go? etc.
Why would any god allow this to take place?
GOOD question. It’s much like the age old philosophical question – the problem of evil (if God is all powerful and all loving, why is there evil?)
In some ways it’s like a Clockwork Orange … one cannot be forced to be good because it would prohibit growth.
The answer is in 2 Nephi 2: 26-28, emphasis on verse 26. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/2/26-27#26 “to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day,”
In other words, they’ll get theirs … harsher than if there had been justice done on earth.
Hope these answers help!
Keep the questions coming!
I agree with the sentiment of Dumdeedum, though I wouldn’t drag Him into it…
A couple of _short_ answers to original questions, in no particular order:
1. Why would someone choose to be born into this world after finding out their life here would be so miserable? Because it opens the door to great and glorious things that would otherwise be unattainable — it was a decision made between alternatives, not simply a masochistic choice.
2. If someone saw they would be evil, why would they choose to be born? Perhaps because they felt they would have a chance to change things–the felt strongly they would be free to make their own choices. Perhaps they were also shown multiple possibilities, rather than a single scripted life. I also doubt we would have been shown every detail of our lives…
3. What’s with having both “instant knowledge” and libraries filled with books? Beats me — but I’m not one to reject data because it doesn’t fit my thinking. It suggests that I need to expand my thinking, go deeper, think outside the box.
4. What is the purpose of someone coming to earth and then dying as an infant? They will have kept their second estate, obtained a physical body, and opened the door to a glorious eternity. They apparently have no need to learn things the hard way, like me.
5. What is the purpose of going through all this if the end is known — good destroys evil, etc? Because it’s not about the “big picture”, it’s about individuals. The battle is for the individual soul. Satan knows he is going down, and he is determined to take as many of us with him as he can.
6. Does God not test us on purpose? Of course he does. But he doesn’t do evil things to us in order to test us — we get enough of that from Satan and his followers.
7. Why does God allow special spirits to be born as handicapped people? To understand this, one has to appreciate that the social context of our lives — the people we will associate with in this life — probably has some planning involved, so that we can help each other and learn from each other. Handicapped folks are a part of the equation, one by which we learn to give unconditional love. They volunteer to come here to help those around them, even though they don’t necessarily have anything to learn from it.
8. Is it wrong for God to offer rewards for righteous living? Well, it works with my children! One who embarks on the path of righteousness soon learns that it is the way of peace and joy — it is simply good. That God blesses us so abundantly is cause for great humility and gratitude.
9. Why doesn’t God make it easier to find truth? I have two thoughts on this: first, the degree to which we value something correlates directly with our effort to obtain it. Second, I think what we become is vastly more important than what we know. Through struggle and effort to obtain truth, we grow and develop.
Sorry, I’m out of time. If you find my answers completely useless, I’ll desist. They’re some of what I’ve learned through my own struggles in life.
But to comment on your answer: I understand that you have to make mistakes to learn from it and grow, but what I don’t understand, is why god would allow others to suffer because of mistakes of one (evil) person. He may have reasons for that, but it’s a puzzle to me.
The metaphysical nature of suffering is never easy to understand, and perhaps even tougher to explain.
First off, one must recognize (or spiritually feel, rather) one’s own spirit, that it exists and to feel its presence, or another’s spirit’s presence. It would be much easier if I were in person to show you the nature of auras, chakras, etc.. If using a logical approach this is the beginning of one’s spiritual journeys, but for the purpose of argument we must assume it exists.
Second, that our spirits are immortal, and that this life is not the end.
Third, consider how throughout most of Jewish history, the Lord has intentionally chastized Israel in order to purify them.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/48/10#9
Also have you ever paused to wonder why the poor in other countries have more sincere smiles than the affluent in the USA? These poor do not fear death, and yet rich Americans seem deathly afraid of even their own neighbors. Their children are pleased with all their surroundings, as our children whine about veggies, homework, and not having the best iPod.
Fourth, even Jesus Himself suffered, so that He may fully identify and succor those others who have also suffered.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/122/7-8#5
Fifth, we learn even in Sarah Menet’s book from the example of her father, that those who cause suffering will endure equal or greater suffering themselves … unless they fully repent
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/19/16-19#16
Sixth, this poem.
SEARCHING
A young man desires freedom. Freedom is granted by his parents.
Yet notwithstanding the high prices, he enslaves himself with vices.
Declaring his parents ‘oppressing’ and he and his gang ‘free agents’
He is still searching for freedom, but only where there is none.
One day he will set himself free and discover responsibility.
When this happens, he will open his eyes and know what he has done.
An educated man seeks for truth. Truth is provided by God’s elect.
But because of his selfish pride, he rejects it and casts it aside,
Declaring the truth ‘unscholarly’ and his own ideas correct.
He is still searching for truth, but only where there is none.
One day he will be humbled and see where he had stumbled.
When this happens, he will open his eyes and know what he has done.
A teenage boy searches for love. He finds it and is happy for a season,
But he takes her for granted, lying, and dumps her, leaving the girl crying.
He’s declaring her ‘lame and boring’ and himself ‘cool beyond reason.’
He is still searching for love, but only where there is none.
One day he’ll grow up and realize how much he missed those loving ties.
When this happens, he will open his eyes and know what he has done.
Israel is waiting for a Messiah. Jesus Christ comes with his ministry.
But because of their selfish pride, they reject him and have him crucified.
They’re declaring the Christ ‘blasphemy’ and themselves ‘true authority.’
They are still searching for a Savior, but only where there is none.
One day Christ shall return, and all Israel’s enemies will he burn.
When this happens, they will open their eyes and know what they have done.
What are we searching for? Are we searching in the right place?
Did we stumble and leave it behind? Or are we continuing blind?
Perhaps we must open our eyes and see that it’s before our face.
We’ve received the gifts we desired, however our misery grows.
Many gifts have been given before, but we forsake them to search for more.
Searching far and wide for an answer while it lies right under our nose.
Our Father knows and loves us, and wants us to find the answer.
For us to grow progressively, He chastens us to help us see.
This way, we can search our hearts and feel the love of our Savior.
Now we see God will not spoil us, or want us to deny His mercy,
But when He has come to our relief, we forgot Him and remained in unbelief.
Thus far greater than receiving, is in ourselves being worthy.
So in the end, who really suffers? Those who have never known suffering or inflicted suffering upon others.
I just stumbled on this site. Pretty heavy stuff.
Some unsolicited info- I had to decide weather or not I belived in God. Growing up in an LDS family, that values education and thinking, it really was a choice. No science can disprove Gods’ exsistance, just as i cannot prove it. I had to make logical judgements and start from there. It makes more sense that we have a father in heaven, just as life itself is cyclical so eternity would be . Of all the religions on earth, the LDS faith makes the most sense on a logical basis.
A kind and loving Father in Heaven would want us to grow and learn, see, touch and feel. He gives us guidelines for our own good, but still lets us decide. Where we end up in the long run will be fair and just. When one can decide to belive in God, then the spiritual feeling come because we allow them in. We start trusting more and having much less internal strife. trust me on that!
God did not say this life would be easy. We cannot make the judgement on who is having a harder time than another because we don;t all have the same breaking points from the same issues.
As for the suffering children in third world nations, yes, that is tragic. But being a mother of five, seeing the trials and temptations my kids and their peers go through all the time, I beg to argue which is harder, a physical hardship or moral temptation?
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Hello to you Karel.
I have just come across you web site.
I would like to know if you BELIEVE in Near Death Experiences ? Or do you think that they are a fantasy of the mind?
Please excuse my short reply as I am disabled and find it difficult to use the computer.
May I also ask where exactly in the world you are?
Hi, Karel,
I started out spending much time Monday (Sept. 11th) reading about conspiracy theories regarding the 5-year-old attacks on the U.S. I had read something about them last fall and got to thinking about them again recently with stuff being on PBS Sunday and Monday nights that was just old “official” theory stuff that didn’t really address conspiracy theories. I had remembered reading last fall about a lady who’d had an NDE that spoke at some conference or meeting (I thought it was at BYU.), and she’d said something to the extent that anyone who thought that those buildings came down just by fire and planes was sadly mistaken; but I couldn’t remember who that lady was. Then I did a google search under “BYU WTC NDE” to try to find her, and I found your site. I read everything you had to say and present about the 9-11-01 issue on your site, and I would say that I am very inclined to concur that there is a conspiracy, and I also agree with the idea that the U.S. president needs better puppeteers. Anyway, that’s how I got here.
Let me start this response to your spiritual post by saying, thank you for reading this and thank you for all of your posts, especially the one that has provoked the thoughts in me that go into my answer to it here. Next, let me say that I have no intention of trying to push you or anyone into believing anything that I write here about my own understandings of the truth of things. I’m merely sharing my thoughts and references with you for your consideration and either your own personal approval of or rejection of, and I don’t belong to any particular religion. Of course, I am presuming that you did present this post because you were looking for responses/input from other people since I’m unaware of any proven God doing any blogging.
Mine and my husband’s thoughts on the Christian Bible (especially with the help of A&E’s documentaries on “Who Wrote the Bible” & “The Unknown Jesus” and http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/reincar/re-imo.htm) – It’s interesting that you liken the Christian Bible’s concept of God to being like a dictatorial leader. The Christian Bible has been said to be based on a religion that was made for crowd control and, in many cases throughout history, this has been true of most or all religions. For example, Christianity was a religion started supposedly from Jesus’ teachings that was supposedly documented in the new testament (the old testament, before Jesus, came from Judaism), and the first 5 centuries of Christianity (those closest to personally knowing Jesus’ teachings) even had reincarnation in its doctrines until the leading government of the time decided that they didn’t want it in there. It was also government rulers that decided when to stop adding books to the Bible. I’ve also even read and heard Christians themselves speak of things being omitted from the original texts and about different interpretations of things in it. The Christian Bible wasn’t mass produced until only about 500 years ago, and so, for centuries, it was left to the hands of only the elite to change or have it interpreted or misinterpreted however they wanted. That is why I question it. I don’t automatically put my faith in any book, but rather in experience and what makes sense to me. However, that’s not to say that I don’t/won’t read books, and that’s not to say that I think the Christian Bible is all made up, by any means. In fact, I actually believe that there are many books that are inspired from seemingly unexplained intelligence that goes beyond the normal thoughts of the writers. I just question everything I read, and I apply something I once read was a quote from Buddha. It went something like “If it makes sense, keep it; if it doesn’t, get rid of it”.
In regards to our thoughts on God – Mine and my husband’s belief is that you can choose to believe in God or not to believe in God. You can choose to do bad things or choose to do good things. It’s really up to you and what you feel inside is right, but I don’t think that you can expect God to appear before you like what happened in the 1970′s movie, “Oh, God”. I once had that same question. Why didn’t God just appear and tell us what to do? Then in quiet, relaxed moments of laying in bed awake, an answer came to me that has satisfied me. In the movie, “Oh God”, John Denver’s atheistic character was surprised by God physically appearing before him. Then God proved to him that He was God, answered all his questions, and then told him what He wanted him to do. Then John Denver’s character did what he was told to do, by God, even though his character had not previously believed in the existence of God prior to God’s physical appearance to him. I think that even Osama Bin Laden would do what God told him to do if he was convinced that it was God. I believe that anyone would. However, do you remember what you said about people doing things because they really want to rather than out of fear of punishment or expectation of rewards? Well, it is said that, if God exists, It is our spiritual father/mother/parent (gender is only a physical condition) and, if you were to picture yourself as Its child, you probably wouldn’t like being told “You’ll do it because I said so”. You’d want to know why you should do this or that, and experience is the best teacher for that. If God exists, It would know this and want us to choose on our own what we think is right and wrong, and It would want us to do good simply because we want to rather than because It/”He” told us to. How would you teach your child to do good without it expecting reward? That’s not an easy question to answer because, by nature, children and people tend to learn from rewards and punishments. Spirit/It would be fair and just, though. This is easy to conceive when one thinks of Spirit/It as being a part of everything everywhere and when one thinks of time in terms of not just one day or month or year or even lifetime, but over different lifetimes. With these things in mind, justice does prevail. History teaches that good does always wind up conquering bad, but you can’t just look at the forest. You have to look at the individual trees and watch them for a long period of time. It would seem that the variances in time with punishments and rewards would be God’s way of teaching us to do the right things without expecting reward or punishment, and that we only realize this when we are ready for it. The fact that you have stated that people should want to do good simply to do good means that you’ve chosen to keep that principle because it makes sense to you. Again, my personal understanding is that God/Spirit/It wouldn’t want us to be mindless sheep. In fact, an intelligent person who really seeks truth cannot remain totally unscrutinizing of anything that comes from outside of himself, even if it is a religion that he has chosen to follow. For this reason, I believe that you’re on the right path even as you read this and as you wrote all that you did in starting this post. Just the fact that you are seeking the truth means a lot. Then, as far as God judging you goes – As I stated before, Spirit would be fair and just and, in so being, as I understand it, we are actually the ones who judge ourselves, not some external deity, whether it exists or not. Some may think that, with this, they could try denial of their wrongs in order to be guilt-free, but their deepest consciousness, which most people don’t know how to reach in this life in our culture, would know the truth about their guilt after their next physical death. This is because, as I understand it, all consciousness levels are reached in the “afterlife”, which is outside our physical universe. It is my understanding, though, that we should be trying to reach our deepest consciousness while still living in a physical body in our physical universe because it is the best, most harmonious path for our entities to explore and mature in the physical world, which I’ve read and understand to be only a part of our spiritual growth experiences.
One thing I thought I should mention is that I noticed, in your criticisms of the NDE you read about, you went from saying that she claimed that “We’re given a small glimpse into our future life” to saying things like she was indicating that Hitler would have seen “most of his life before he chose to come to earth” and other things indicating that she said that we would be shown pretty much our entire next life. Which did she say? – “a small glimpse” or “most” or all of our next life that would be shown to us? Further, did she specifically say that we would be shown whether we would be “evil” or not in the future life? because, as I understand things, that choice is and always will be ours, and we should certainly be grateful for that. That said, I also understand, from things I have read, that prophecies for the future are often based on what will be if the course of collective human actions doesn’t change and that people can collectively change the course of their collective futures with others, as well as the course of their own personal futures, by the choices that they make. Yes, there are no accidents, but that is only because (again as I understand it) people don’t make mistakes in their choices. They just do what they think they need to do at the time, and God (if there is one) doesn’t judge them for their decisions, whether naive and stupid or educated, because it is understood that we’re learning and God would give us credit for just living and making the decisions in the first place. A rather famous NDE (Dannion Brinkley) said that we are all warriors and heros just for being here.
In regards to religions, my husband has said and we have both been fairly accepting of the idea that the basics of the truth of things could be found in those things that all religions agree on, which tend to be mainly just desirable virtues of a non-material nature rather than rituals that usually involve physical things and/or mandated, repeated, scheduled activities.
It is true that many people suffer horribly in this world, and I have found this rather depressing myself. Your concerns of this show that you have a fair amount of compassion, another sign that you’re on the right path. Having compassion is one of those things that probably all religions recommend, even though many religious people don’t seem to have much compassion. However, that is not to say that God doesn’t exist nor that God isn’t/wouldn’t be compassionate. Again, as I understand it, God would want us to have free will, and karma and reincarnation exist as compliments to that free will. Also, if a supreme being did exist, It would most likely be a part of everything and It would most likely feel everything that each one of us feels. Such a thing is hard for us to conceive, but then we’re not everywhere at once, are we? At any rate, if God existed, we would most likely be like Its children and It wouldn’t want to stunt our growth and restrict our fun by totally confining us. Instead, It would let us go out to play and go to school through our incarnations. Unless one stays in a plastic bubble that doesn’t go anywhere outside, one is bound to make mistakes and get hurt at times in playing and learning. Also, suffering, as well as happiness, are rather dependent on perception. If one is born into a starving situation and knows nothing else, it probably wouldn’t feel as bad as if one were coming from living in middle-class American suburbia to such a situation. Likewise, consider the spoiled children in the 1970 movie, “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory”. They were practically never content. This is not to say that we shouldn’t have compassion, of course. As I stated before, I believe that being compassionate is one of the many things that all religious doctrines probably agree on.
When my husband and I were very young, before we knew each other, we were part of the “born-again Christian” culture until we started having problems making sense of some things with it. Still, I’ve had no problems with people believing in that religion or whatever anyone wants to believe in as long as they don’t hurt others with their beliefs. Those things said, my husband and I were lost or searching for years as you are frustrated and searching. Then we finally found some things that made sense to us and that also contain what we believe to be as good a proof as any available that God/Spirit exists, and these things also support the idea that there’s truth in those things that all religions have in common. So they’ve become our beliefs and the following 4 sources best describe them:
BOOK: There is a River – by Thomas Sugrue (Jan. 1997 edition) (The Story of Edgar Cayce, an amazing but verifiable true story containing extraordinary phenomenon) – available on amazon.com
BOOK: Reincarnation: Claiming Your Past, Creating Your Future – by Lynn Elwell Sparrow (provides many logical answers to spiritual questions) – available on amazon.com
WEBSITE: http://www.near-death.com (has numerous reported and categorized accounts – including some from celebrities, information about skeptical arguments about NDE’s and other spiritual matters, and just about anything you’d want to know about NDE’s - but I wasn’t able to find your friend, Sarah, on this site, and I wouldn’t question that some people try to make money from this phenomenon – That doesn’t make it a hoax, though.)
BOOK: Creative Visualization – by Shakti Gawain (a journey into the power of thought and spirit)
A few politically oriented sources that you might also find interesting, as I do, are as follows:
WEBSITE: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/jefferson.html
WEBSITE: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_jefferson.html (Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd and my favorite of all U.S. presidents, his face is one of those 4 carved in Mount Rushmore, he’s the president that wrote America’s Declaration of Independence in 1776, & he’s been said to predict that the U.S. would need to exercise its right to overthrow the government in a revolution against tyranny about every 200 years – it seems it’s a little overdue.)
ONLINE BOOK: http://www.ruwart.com/Healing/ruwart_all.html
In coming to a close, I wish to borrow some quotes from your link to a Barrie Zwicker interview that could be applied to both political and spiritual issues. They were on the link that you had just above your post, “Steal This Film”. In response to the question, “What is your opinion of some of the more fantastic theories that have been put forth. . .”, Barrie said, “No theory is fantastic if it squares with the available evidence. Theorizing is a logical and necessary process for discovering truth.” and “Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. Again, I’m just offerring input and it’s up to you to decide what you want to keep or discard. However, from what I read of your notions of absolute proof, I do wonder if you might even not recognize God even if “He” did stand before you in physical form, perform physical “miracles”, and give you a big hug. You might still be looking for the fake wizard behind the curtain. As the saying goes, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear”.
Consider this one last thing. They say that children are closer to the Source and see and know more things than adults can. Well, a 3-day conference about pastlife regression therapy (involving seminars and group hypnosis sessions) that I went to, well into my adult life, reminded me of some thoughts that I’d had decades earlier. They were thoughts that I’d had at about the tender age of 4 or 5 years old, when I hadn’t yet had any religious programming. I had long since forgotten those thoughts that, at that very young age, I could not begin to put into words. Then, when I could remember them for the first time in decades, after that conference, they seemed practically blasphemous by Christian standards/beliefs I’d been taught in later years. Those thoughts indicated that I seemed to have come from a place where I had been a part of everything around me, every piece of material matter and every inch of air space around me. It seemed like I’d been a part of everything before this life, and it felt strange that, in my state of existence at that time in this life, I couldn’t see or feel what other people near me were seeing and feeling. It was strange that I couldn’t see through whoever’s eyes I chose to see through nor feel through whoever’s skin I chose to feel through. I could only see and feel through my own. So my perception was that my body and this life or incarnation seemed to restrict me. It was a strange and uncomfortable separateness I felt compared to the previous existence I seemed to remember, and it made me come to wonder if I was the only person that was real, at least in this life – like everyone else might be just shadows. This wasn’t from a dream. It wasn’t just one day that I had those thoughts when I was little. They came to me many times, just as any memories a young child might have of a past residence, when I was sitting alone and it was quiet. If you read the 3 offline books and the NDE website that I listed above, I think you’ll see some connection between them and the thoughts I had when I was little. By the way, I didn’t read any of these sources before that conference reminded me of those thoughts because that conference was just the beginning of my new spiritual findings and beliefs.
I have 4 mottos or quotes to offer, from me:
Love Everyone No Matter What
Blessed Be the At-One-Ment with Everyone
The Person Who Gets Others to Think Outside the Normal Paradigms Has Done a Great Service to Humanity
Humanity Has Much Growing Room With Its Ways of Thinking
Love and Blessings, Kathy
:neutral::twisted::shock::smile::???::cool::evil::grin::oops::razz::roll::wink::cry::eek::lol::mad::sad:
Dear Karel,
Thank you in advance for allowing me to post these additional comments as afterthoughts to what I wrote above after going through and more thoroughly reviewing your ideas about spirituality that you’ve given on this site.
One of the sites that I referred you to above, http://www.near-death.com, has a lot of information about the works of Edgar Cayce. However, I recommended his biography (“There is a River”) because it was written by a man (Thomas Sugrue) who knew him personally who originally sought to expose him as a fraud. The book is a detailed story of Cayce’s entire life, including details not found elsewhere regarding his works. The book also brings him to life as a real person instead of just a figure in history. It reads like a well-written novel, and I’ve found it more fascinating than even what I’ve read or heard of the story of Jesus. That’s not to say that he was more important than Jesus. It’s just that there seems to be lack of a real detailed story about Jesus’ life like this one about Edgar Cayce. Also, it might interest you that he was a photographer by trade.
In regards to NDE books being written and sold, not all of these experiencers have done this, and I know that, if I had an extraordinary and profound experience like an NDE, I’d want to talk about it a lot and share it with other people, very possibly also writing a book about it. By the way, my personal favorite (NDE) is that of Mellen Benedict, but you might also like David Oakford’s. Both of these can be found under “Notable NDE’s” on http://www.near-death.com. I have also found Arthur Yensen’s to make good points along with being the most humorous one that I’ve ever read from. His is under “Reincarnation Evidence” on that site. In addition, as I said before, the site also contains some celebrities that tell about having NDE’s, NDE’s that have brought back prophecies that have been validated, NDE’s that have brought back new scientific technological ideas, and other strong evidence of the authenticity of NDE’s.
In regards to religions, I’ve learned from my own way of thinking, Edgar Cayce, and the information on http://www.near-death.com that there is no one true religion and that all religions do lead back to God. The site explains this if you click on “Religions” under “NDE Research Conclusions:”. By the way, the site also tells about NDE findings regarding Satan:evil:, and it seems that there is no Satan and that part of what people perceive to be Satan working/trying to work in their lives is really “dark” souls that are lost in the spirit world. This is indicated in at least 5 NDE’s that I know of on the site – David Oakford’s, George Ritchie’s, Howard Storm’s, Mellen Benedict’s, and Arthur Yensen’s – the first 4 of which can be found under “Notable NDE’s” and Arthur’s under “Reincarnation Evidence”. Edgar Cayce’s findings also back this up. In regards to the “good”:smile: side of things, the Bible’s version of God, particularly in the old testament, is too narcissistic and full of human faults for my own personal belief. Besides, it doesn’t make sense to follow someone that doesn’t live by their own teachings. God isn’t a human anyway, but rather an omnipresent Spirit. So why should It/”He” have human faults? Also, we are spirits as well, but having a human experience. It could be likened to a human getting into a cat or a dog in order to have a cat or dog kind of experience and see what that feels like, but it’s apparently much more profound to be spirits having a human kind of experience and seeing what that feels like especially since being a spirit in the first place was probably one thing that we didn’t have a choice about and human bodies seem to be the best type of body to work with in this existence.
At any rate, I’ve found that, in seeking the answers to spiritual issues, it helps me to do it with a positive, open attitude about Spirit/God and with all the love and accepting forgiveness for people that I can muster. Doing it this way not only helps me to feel better (and I’ve found how I feel to be very important to my well-being and how I treat others), but it also seems to provide an intelligence/understanding that comes from the heart. I mean, I find that thinking negatively about God or people feels like giving up on our world, like the existence I’m experiencing is my story and to give up on a happy ending is like damning my story to have an unhappy ending. I think this is what is meant about having faith. There’s a certain amount of wanting that’s involved with it. Also, it only makes sense to me that we cannot expect to get from others and the world what we do not give to others and the world, even in our very underestimated thoughts (references in regards to the power of our thoughts – Shakti Gawain’s book, “Creative Visualization”, Edgar Cayce’s findings, and your site’s Einstein quote “Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited; but imagination encircles the world.”).
I really hope that I’ve provided helpful input; but, as I said before, what you choose to believe in is ultimately up to you. Different people have different beliefs. That’s what makes us all unique. It would be a very boring world if we weren’t. We just need to learn to accept and even appreciate each other’s differences and to share with everyone the wealth the world has to offer.
Love and Blessings No Matter What, Kathy
My what an interesting site.
RE: the library VS. “instant knowledge”- the Library was the repository of human info, which is private, therefore the Spirit does not provide it as instant potatoes. Also, the human info someone else’s…. therefore the record. Sarah had no problem recalling her own life.
RE: your “God’s gotta COME GET ME” if I’m ever going to pray about things again attitude, but I don’t want to be a prophet. Hm. Let’s see….. you want the prize- the ultimate verification of faith which is a manifestation while in the flesh, but then you want to go on your merry way and NOT be a prophet- or a person who dedicates his life to the testimony OF GOD….. hm…you are smart enough, I’ll let you stew on that yourself. Also, you want to destroy the laws of faith and knowledge, because you once believed a rather interesting religion. I don’t know that you are sufficiently abused to have so lost faith in all God’s ability to reach you. I have heard of horribly abused people where despare sets in, but in the worst I ever know about, even that person was able to lift up his eyes once, and that once made all the difference. In all, your skepticism reminds me of my brother, who suffers bi-polar schizophrenia with paranoia. He believes himself so elevated to the rest of us, that God OWES him a personal visit. The healthiest thing that has ever happened to him was sitting in a circle with four other people wanted by the CIA and awaiting direction from their personal friend, God.
Very interesting, folks. I can’t contribute more than the others on the real topics. M
This mortal life is very temporary. In other words, everything corrodes or gets old and wares down. In comparison to what’s outside of this world…this life is very short and not as concrete. The things that we have in this life and the situation that we live in, whether it is good or bad, is like a tiny speck of time as compared to the eternities that exist before and after we came to this world. We’re human and we learn and base our decisions on what we can hear, see, smell, touch or taste. If we want to learn of things that are outside of these limitations, we must focus with our hearts (our spirit). Depending on whether you’re ready to recieve spiritual answers is up to you. You have to be humble to receive answers that you may or may not like and you have to be patient. Things of the spirit are so different from things of the world. This is why, I don’t see how Sarah Menet contradicted herself in her book. By reading the questions that Karel Donk wrote, it is evident that she is confused. For example, I don’t think that being able to converse several things at once (in the spirit world) means that you shouldn’t need to read from books. And who’s to say that the books from the spirit world don’t give out a lot of information at once? If knowledge can be attained all at once or once at a time…having the ability to do both is awsome and doesn’t contradict itself in any way. I could spend all day typing my understanding of the book but something tells me that Karel’s not looking for answers. The most important thing to understand about this life…is that we had to come here to receive a body; One that we will eventually be reunited with after we die and will have this body for the rest of eternity. The other reasons are to learn important traits, talents and values, and also to be tested. If we had a perfect knowledge of our life before coming to this world and what’s really out there, our decisions would be based on that…and not on what it is that we’re capable of or what’s really our desire. Our test result would be biased and there would be no eternal justice. This world is obviously not just, but is temporary and we chose to go through this (believe it or not) so that we could progress. So that we could gain our body, gain knowledge through experience and prove that we’re worthy because we want to be more like our Father in Heaven. If it takes going through the “school of hard knocks” to reach that potential, it’s worth it. I can see how spirits could see past their temporary suffering in the life they were to live on Earth because the reward would totally out weigh it. The bad things that happen to good or innocent people in this life is hard but without our knowing the whole picture…we can’t understand that it is necessary. Everyone has their own special calling. Their’s something that we will do after this life and the hardships that we go through in this life are preparing us for it. Yes, there is a lot of injustice in this life. But God (who is just) doesn’t live here. Where he lives, there is justice. REAL JUSTICE; Nothing contradicting.
No assumptions; Just the truth. And yes, I can prove it… when you’re ready to see it. You’ll remember the things that I wrote when you finally do get to see it. And that’s when I’ll say…”there’s your proof”. Like I said, things of the spirit are very different from things of this world. Things of the spirit can only be taught by the spirit. And you won’t understand these things unless you’re in tune. Kind of like a radio frequency. Our spirit picks things up at a different frequency than our human ears. You have to clear your mind, open your heart and be calm/ patient. Some call this meditation…I call it prayer. When you ask God whether something is true or not, he will answer you with a feeling of peace and surety. If you take the time to quietly reach deep within yourself and find that desire to understand these things, God will see how sincere you are and will give you all of the answers that you need. I wish you luck in your search for truth.
I stumbled on this site and am unsure if I’ll make it back but I love the subject.
I would like to contribute my surity that the LDS chuch has helped resolve all of my questions of this life. I know why I’m here and where I can go after this life if I follow the true and correct principles of Heavely Father. What I know is that we can’t make it to God’s kingdon alone, we all need the help of Jesus Christ. He declared “I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life.”
Christ promissed to return to this earth. A question we all should ask ourselves might be. “Am I prepared to meet my creator? ” What can I do to improve? What are the things that really count in life and am I presently doing them?
This is one of my all time favorite scriptures that has a strong and meaningful message:
“Behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind, then you must ask me if it be right and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you. Therefore you shall feel that it is right. “And if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.”
Our life is a test. Many answers cannot be revealed to us right now or untill we are finished with our purpose here on earth. As long as you have a conviction, everything else falls into comfortable slots. For example, I have no doubts about my religion. I don’t force it to anyone but am sure thankful that someone shared it with me. I will do the same, its and invitation to reseach it out and decide for yourself if you would like to kneel down and ask God in humility if this is His true and living gospel. If the teachings that you recieve are true and how you can find happiness. I just want others to have this opportunity.
Thanks for reading… I invite you to visit http://lds.org There are articels, stunning portraits of Christ, video clips, online scriptures, and the source of the everlasting truth. The website can be fully viewed in over 50 languages! Enjoy.
Being a member of her religion, the questions you raised knew the answers to, at least they are the beliefs. I will answer in short simple ones as per my perspective as a member of the LDS Faith, which Sarah Menet is also. You may apply your critical thinking to these to as I am always a skeptic on specifics before a believer so I really enjoyed this review!
Contradiction Answer 1 : The reason that some were reading in her experience and some a better ability to receive answers is what their level of spirituality is. Think of life final exam of High School, a 4th grader still has some studying to do to pass the final exam and graduate. We are all at different levels and through the atonement we will all have a chance to learn and make a choice based on the truth and our desire to know and receive it.
Contradiction Answer 2 : The reason we would still choose to come to earth and live any life, even a painful one that would seem very unfair because part of the process of eternal progression is to receive a mortal body. In that pre-spirit existence, we saw our elder brother Jesus Christ and knew it was the correct path and we knew he was the truth and the light, so knowing this and being able to see the purposes thereof, we would do it in a second, some 10 seconds, some longer, we had the choice but knowing it was truth , of course we chose to keep progressing to bigger and better things.
Contradiction Answer 3 : We would still come here even if we still had a glimpse that we would partake in something bad because I imagine we knew that because we have choice, we would overcome it and choose good. Of course I don’t have nearly a fraction of all the answers there are to this question, the truth is on levels of understanding we probably can’t imagine, but knowing this process I imagine that we trusted Christ, knew by the Atonement regardless of our circumstance have a fair shot, and did what was right and what we necessary to progress to newer posibilities like Gods and Men before us.
Contradiction Answer 4 : God has certain plans, these plans are to bring forth his Gospel, that man have the chance to receive it and exercise free agency and that all pre-mortal spirits can receive a body and the chance to be baptized. By the atonement, the unfair cruelness of evil we will vindicated in the afterlife and I firmly believe every person that dies won’t be complaining once they remember the pre spirit existence and the choice to come here and why.
Contradiction Answer 5 : The purpose is to progress spiritually. I guess we could choose another plan and many did, but most of us chose to partake in this plan so we could progress to better things that are beyond human imagination. Think of the ability to understand the universe as a whole and imagine the vastness of it, I def want to do that! Plus, we knew progressing was truth.
Contradiction Answer 6 : Well IMO most of the time they would communicate with dreams is that it still would require faith and reflection. Doing this in person always seems like going against it would not be a choice, in dreams, according to our faith and understanding, we will know his will. This is more complex and probably needs a little faith to believe or buy.
Contradiction Answer 7 : The fact that good works are rewarded should not be surprising or deemed illogical. The ultimate gift is a reward isn’t it. But ultimately it comes down to if we know right from wrong and what we choose. If we know righteousness and choose unrighteousness then that says a lot about ourselves. Of course we still come here because we can do this and have an awakening and choose righteousness.
The reason that some will fail and won’t progress is that some were on the fence in the pre spirit existence. It is said a third of spirits went with Lucifer, knowing that, how many were on the fence, always persuaded and convinced? Who knows. Something to think about.
Contradiction Answer 8 : How do we know most things are true? We act on faith and believe the result, if the result is bad then its bad, good then its good. Ultimately what is misunderstand in mainstream Christianity is that good men with good hearts are just that, regardless of faith. Bad men with bad hearts are just that no matter the faith. Both are found in secular and religious beliefs both will be judged fairly and accurately be our creator, this if it is true we will have no choice on since we agreed to come here and knew the stakes(this will be understand after mortal death).
Just like most knowledge , it comes from a root truth and then many of mans imperfections get passed by word of mouth and paper/mp3s, etc. haha.
It is my belief that my faith is true, meaning the system and ordained church of God. This is an advantage because of our ultimate goal, spiritual progression, it is available to you or anybody else that has the ability to learn about it , exercise faith, choice, prayer, skepticism , asking questions, etc. Those who don’t, will have chances in after life.
The reason I believe is that I have studied the doctrine , I have prayed and had experiences that I feel were attached with a confirmation of truth, and my perspective. In the big picture, it makes the most sense over anything I have been exposed to. I read a diverse subject of material, nothing really provides a better understand of things to me and all I can ask from myself is to go where the truth is, no matter what the source, my mind is open to bigger and better possiblities.
Last Contradiction Answer : The term “easy” is relative, you may find it easier to see the truth if you exercise faith which you are free to do. If one is not willing to experiment with alternative avenues of finding truth then I guess they will just wonder why it isn’t made easier for them. Meditation, prayer, faith, etc are some nice alternatives.
If we didn’t have doubts then we wouldn’t have beliefs and choice. Just be thankful for your ability to think for yourself, believe what you want, read what you want, write what you want, expose yourself to what you want and not be bound to practice alternative methods of finding truth and can subscribe to those you have faith in.
Satan in the pre existence wanted us to have no choice, know all things, all come back, and all glory go to him, Christ on the other hand knew the correct way to do things and proposed knowing full well the will of the father and truth to allow the spirits to choose what way, come to earth, receive a body and participate in the plan of salvation and the ultimate satisfaction of knowing you did it by choice.
I imagine some were on the fence then as they are now about what way is right.
Closing thoughts are any member of a faith who feels secure because of their membership don’t get the point and that as long as your searching for truth and accept regardless of where it comes from then feel good about yourself and do your best to progress as a human.
I highly recommend to all embracing liberty and freedom and knowing what both are and mean and defending them. These two items, just like most truths are so perverted by humans in power and in society in general.
Thanks, this is the longest post I have ever done , I hope my grammar and spelling aren’t to bad as they are not my strong suits and I hope you found it a little fascinating my LDS perspective on this.
Cheers.
I would like to share with you seekers and doubters one small piece of value. God speaks to everyone via dreams and visions. If you aren’t writing down what you saw, heard or experienced you will not know what was said to you. Within the words describing the dream are analogies and metaphors, plays on words, anagrams and numerous other ways of conveying the message. You won’t get it by looking at the images. You need the words. If you have an apocalyptic dream and do not have it written then it has about as much value as trillions of other dreams that were not recorded.
I think the only way to find out what to believe in is just read into EVERYTHING spiritual that you possibly can. Make it a variety of religions. You will find what works for you as you apply teachings in your life from different cultures, beliefs, etc. Just do what your heart tells you to. Who cares if it is scientific or not? If you get an inner feeling of peace then you are on the right track. I think there are truths in almost every religion, and you can take what you need to out of all (or most) of them. The term Holy Ghost is like your conscience, telling you what you should be doing in your life. The term God is a higher being. Whether one religion thinks He is “God” or “Mohommad,” I think the basic idea is to look to a higher way of life and just do the best you can. If you feel some teachings in religions do not feel right then by all means, move on and learn as much as you can from as many other sources as you can. I myself am on the same page as Sarah Menet as far as religion goes(LDS), but I have absolutely NO problem with searching further and reading a wide variety of books to see what other people think and just to find out why people are the way they are. It is very interesting and I think, fulfilling to have this approach. You will learn something new or good from almost everyone. I wouldn’t demand that God stand in front of me and prove his existence, but rather, read teachings (from a variety of sources) and apply them to my life and see how I feel about it. There is no loss in learning about different things, even if you decide after investigating that it is not for you. You will eventually know the path/decision you would like to take in your life. It is all a matter of patience and research and LISTENING to your heart. Questioning things is fine. If you have questions, look for answers. It is not that hard.
I hope this helps. xoxox /ashleigh
I’m wondering about opinions on the previewed world events Sarah recorded in her book. Have you noticed recent simalarities???? How close to the second coming do you think we are? Years, decades, centuries? days….
I read Sarah’s book and part of it was interesting and new and part was ignorant and fantasyland. I thought the ignorant part was the guy wearing a black suit in temporay heaven instead of the silk gown so that his loved ones could recognize him. Wha!? the? Who was Sarah’s editor? She lost me in believing her story right then and there and I really wanted to believe. Now I am read a book written by a guy who was dead for much longer then Sarah. He was dead for eight hours. I just started the book, “My time in HEAVEN” by Richard Sigmund. I’ve read Edgar Cayce books too -amazing. Too sum my feelings up sometimes i beleive it’s just there, sometimes I choose to believe and sometimes I choose not to believe it’s just not there. Sometimes I care sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I hope that when I die I won’t remember anything or exist at all and any way. Whatever is a comfort to me at the moment serves me for that moment. I believe we are creatures of comfort and are always looking for comfort where ever that may be.
You make alot of good points.. I can see how the book could be confusing when you don’t have all the answers. I don’t know what faith you are but all the answers are out there… Here on Earth they don’t come all at once but line upon line. I take any one’s work with a grain of salt no one is perfect we are human .. The only true answers to life will come to you through your own soul and by the power of the Holy Ghost. I enjoyed her book and enjoyed meeting her.. she is a very gentle soul. I understand her book in the context of which it was written. In james ch5 verse21? I think ,I don’t have my Bible handy.. “If any of ye lack wisdom let him ask of God! “God has all the answers and will tell you any thing you want to know….
Karel,
I enjoy reading material like the book “There is no Death”. And, I can relate to the frustration of your unanswered questions. It seems I have spent my whole life seeking answers to my questions. I envy those who feel they have found the answer(s)to life.
I am curious, do you feel you are any closer to finding peace of mind compared to what you felt in 2006?
I would be interested in reading about what you have discovered and learned as a result of your quest.
Good Luck to you.
I went back and read your responses to the many people telling you their experiences stories. I noticed in one response you referred to a special experience you had. You did not elaborate, and I can respect that. You did mention the experience has had an influence on your life. If I am understanding your frustration correctly that is what you are hoping for is more individual experiences to give you insight or evidence of god or an after life or what ever. I have often wonder why some people are fortunate enough to have these experiences.
I listened to video from the site Zeitgeist. That was interesting. It reminded me of having heard many descriptions of a spiritual awakening from addicts working the 12 step program after hitting rock bottom. There is another possible avenue to gain some insight.
I read a book a few years back that you might like. It is call ‘Power vs. Force’ by David R. Hawkins. He also had a near death experience he shares in the preface of his book.
Later in his life, Hawkins relates another experience he had. The second experience sounds exactly like what the yogis call kundalini. (It would be easier for you to look it up in Wikipedia than to try to understand it from my explanation.) Sri Ramana Maharshi claims kundalini is a dormant energy in all of us. Problem here again, is how do we activate it.
This book has a lot of very interesting ideas. He talks about Kinesiology that is quite interesting, but I especially liked his ideas about life and individual spiritual development. I think you might like it.
Apostle Paul also makes a comment in the book of Romans (chapter 8:23) where he shares a similar frustration while waiting for a spiritual awakening, he said “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” This probably talks about a spiritual rebirth, or being ‘born again’.
What I have said here may or may not help. Try checking out the book. It is quite interesting.
Most of your questions concerning Sarah’s book has to do with the question of WHY?
Why would anyone want to come down to the earth to experience hardship, strife, pain, sadness, violence, hunger and so much more?
1) Why were we sent here? To gain a body. Something that those that don’t come will never have. In this gaining a body, we then have the opportunity to have new experiences and emotions that could not be experienced in the spirit world.
Now you may think that all of the experiences above would stop any thinking person from wanting to come to earth to experience them. But think about what there is in heaven. You are a spirit that in all cases will have a life of continual happiness and love. They would know nothing about the above experiences and emotions and maybe some would never want to. But just to have these experiences and emotions, most were willing to make the choice to gain a body so that they could have new experiences and to prove to God that they love Him and wanted to be with Him again.
Each of us in heaven had similar personalities as we have here. We were good, yes, but we weren’t perfect and therefore we were valiant (noble) too different degrees, meaning that some were willing to be better than others as we are here. Otherwise, why would a third of the host of heaven have decided to rebel against God. Even there, we had our agency to choose to be better. Even in Satan’s rebellion, he was not evil only rebellious and obstinate, just like we are with our earthly parents. It wasn’t until Satan would not accept God’s choice of how his sons and daughters were to live here on earth and given their agency to come back to Him or not that caused Satan’s expulsion along with those that rebelled with him.
2) Our agency to choose for ourselves God’s love: If you understand the reason behind God’s plan for us to come here in the first place, you would know it was to gain a body and to give us our agency to choose right from wrong and to choose to go back to live with our Father in Heaven. We could not do that in heaven because there was no hardship, no strife, no pain, no sadness, no violence, no hunger. Nothing that would give us the knowledge, understanding, nor experience we needed to make our own choices as to whether we wanted to continually live in God’s presence and to choose to do good or evil. Something in heaven we could not experience.
As I stated earlier, we all were valiant in different degrees. Those that were really valiant were given a better opportunity, better parents (which we chose) less pain, sadness and so forth. Those, that even in the spirit world, were at times rebellious and argumentative and didn’t do their studies, were given things here on earth that would temper their personalities and give them the opportunity to change for the better. It is a well known fact, that everyone must have opposition in their lives in order to grow and learn, otherwise we remain stagnant and never grow beyond our present state.
3) Why would God send a child just to have a short life? Again, the reason for us to come down here was to gain a body. A body that could be glorified which cannot be done in the spirit world. God wanted all of his sons and daughters to have that opportunity. Some of us were needed in heaven more so than others, since God wanted all to have the opportunity to gain a body He therefore gave some a short span of time for their body experience. Even Satan and his followers wanted a body, but will never be able to have one. The reason for a baby or young child to be taken through any number of ways was for those around them to learn from that child’s hardships and how those around the child handled that child’s passing. Whether they thanked God for allowing this sweet spirit to spend its short time with them or whether they cursed God for taking it away, again opposition in all things is a learning experience. Because of the short duration that the child had a body, it would need to learn more quickly what opposition was like. Because of the child’s valiancy in the spirit world, it did not need to go through a whole life of this opposition to understand and to learn the experience.
4) Are our lives here planned? The answer is yes to a point. Why? Because in the spirit world we were shown what our lives would be like and again given our agency to choose to come. Though there was a storyboard of sorts of our life here shown to us, our agency could change any part of it. If we were shown that we would turn bad, kill, rape, steal and so forth, the Lord told us that any part of it would change if we choose not to do those things once we were here, that would put us on that road. That the scenario we were shown was only one outcome not necessarily the only outcome. We were shown our earthly storyboard to freely make our choice to come and experience these oppositions here on earth. It was also told us that we would not remember anything on our storyboard so that we would make our choices from the heart and not from what we previously were shown. So our agency can change our world for good or bad, it is not set in stone.
5) Is the end predicted and if so what is the point? Yes the end of the WORLD is predicted in the Bible but because of our agency, and God will not take that away from each of us, what is not predicted or ordained is our own outcome, which is what this world is all about. Our personal end is still pending on our agency and our works and our deeds. What we do each and every day determines what happens to us in the end and what will happen in the hereafter to us. Will we be given rewards for our good deeds or will there be another place we will be sent because of our misdeeds.
6) Why does God make some handicapped and others not? It all goes back to opposition in all things and to teach us from our experiences. You may think that the one handicapped is the only one being tested. That is not so. All around those handicapped people are others that are also being tested as to their love, understanding, giving and so forth towards those handicapped people. It could be a friend, a family member, a neighbor or even a stranger that God is testing. How we react to the handicapped, whether we help them, ignore them, or love them, helps put us on the path that will determine our righteousness in God’s eyes. Those that are handicapped or born with birth defects were the most righteous of us in heaven and are sent here to test us more than them. Think about a Down Syndrome child. The ones tested the most are the parents.
7) Why do good to gain a reward? Yes God states that there are many blessing to be had if we do good here. The issue is whether you are doing good for the blessings only or if you are just a good person doing good because you want to. Well, God knows your heart. He knows whether you are a person that does good in word only or in acts and whether it is because you want to do them for sake of doing them for the good of their fellow man. God does want you to know that there are wonder blessings waiting for you if you are pure in heart. Doing good for the sake of gaining these blessing will get you nowhere and God will not give you what you are seeking without being PURE IN HEART.
Why doesn’t God make it easy for me to know his will? If God were to make everything easy for us, we would not learn to ask him for help. We would just expect it. He wants us to Pray to Him with ALL OUR HEARTS, MINDS, AND STRENGHT and ask him to help us. He will tell you the truth that you seek through the power of the Holy Spirit if you are asking him with a sincere heart and mind. God states that we are to pray always. If you do this He will send the Spirit to you to bear witness to your heart what is true.
9) How do I know that Christ is the Messiah and whether Christianity is the true? The only way you will know this is to ask God with a repentant heart. Ask in prayer with a sincere heart if Jesus is the Christ and the Messiah and God will bear witness to you as to the truth of it. Prayer is our means to communicate with our Father in Heaven.
Hi Karel,
I came across your blog and found some very interesting comments, testimonies and remarks. I know and understand your frustrations. However, one very thing you wanted to happen is to talk to God face to face.
Allow me to share you some insight that was in the bible. The first time God talked with Moses, did he see His face? You mentioned you don’t want any burning bush appearance? Why do you think God had to do that before He finally showed Himself to Moses… Apparently, being mortal and had not been accustomed to divinity, one would know that an ordinary person like us could not withstand God’s divinity without getting burn. Try looking at the sun for an hour, our eyes couldn’t even stay open watching the blazing sun for 15 minutes without getting hurt. Now, the glory of God is even greater and brighter than the sun. Do you think we could withstand His presence without dying? Unless, you take a baby steps and find out the path to walk on to reach that level of purity as God, there is no way you will have a face to face conversation with Him.
God does not have to prove Himself to you. The mere fact that we are here, living and everything around us already tell us there is a God. He created all things. In believing that, that is the 1st baby steps. All around us is the similitude of the process each of us has to go through. Have youneverbwonder why everything that came or comes to the earth started as a baby? Because, like baby, we rely on the help of our parents or someone to guide us through. Same with our believes or in God,mug less, you take a baby step starting with faith, there is no way you will achieve your heart desire for an audience with God face-to-face.
I hope this helps to understand why everyone keeps telling you to have faith. Unless you have one, it is like your traveling with no sense of direction on how to reach your point of destination.
I would have gladly answer some more of your questions but it is getting late. Perhaps some other time.
Karen,
I know this blog was written long ago but I wanted to make sure your questions were answered. Most of them can be answered with some critical thinking.
I’ll tackle your first one since no one seemed to take a shot at it.
When I was in college I took a physics class. We were handed books that we were to read and then bring to class with us. In class we had an exceptionally good and awarded physics teacher. At the beginning of each class he would simply ask if we read the chapter and then if we had any questions. The first day in class no one said a word and he simply said, ok, and then packed up and left. We quickly realized that he was simply there to answer our questions about the book we were reading on the topic of physics.
If all we had to do to learn something was to ask questions we wouldn’t need to call teachers, teachers…we could call then answerers. You see, without content to ask questions about….there are no questions to answer. The library that Sarah saw had people reading books and during the reading they would ask hundreds of questions at once about the subject they were reading on.
Sarah was able to ask hundreds of questions when she first entered the after life because she was asking questions on subjects she knew about. Even as an expert in my field I have questions I could ask, yet I know absolutely nothing about The Schrödinger equation and a question of what is the The Schrödinger equation would yield an answer equally confusing….yet I could pick up a book on The Schrödinger equation and then begin to ask the questions.
This is why we are taught in the LDS church to constantly learn, grow and educate ourselves since we take what we know with us.
I can get all of your other questions over time if you still read/update this blog.
Hi Jay,
When I grew up, I got to learn about most of the big religions like Christianity, Hinduism and Islam. I even studied with Jehovah’s Witnesses for a while. But as I grew up, I got to think about many things, started to experience more of the world, and started to have certain questions that, as much as I knew about all the religions I mentioned, could not be answered. I guess it’s the same process everyone goes through. When you’re young, you can accept things more easily since life seems so much simpler then, and you easily accept certain things as normal. As you get older, you begin to realize certain things and you begin to look at things differently.
So right now, I do not have any religion I prefer, so you’re right to say that I’m not religious. However, I would like to be, if only one of them would be convincing enough. Most of them just want you to accept certain important and basic things based on faith. They don’t offer any argument, no verifiable evidence, nothing like that. You, for example, just have to believe that there is a god. How can I be sure? Also, there are many different religions. How can anyone be sure which is the right one? Ask a Muslim, a Christian and a Hindu which one they think is the true religion, and they will all give you different answers, and none of them will be able to give you a good verifiable reason why they think so.
There is no hard evidence, nothing verifiable, nothing that can really be convincing. You just have to believe in things and make certain assumptions for everything else to make sense. For example, before you choose Islam, you just have to believe that there is a god. There is no proof of that. Nobody can be 100% certain and offer any evidence of his existence. You just have to believe in it.
This is something I can not do. If I’m going to believe something, and have it influence my life, I have to be sure it’s real.
And so I really want answers. But I want good answers that explain everything. Not answers that are contradicting, or answers that bring up more questions, or answers that require me to just believe certain things without any proof. And yes, I ask questions which are very sharp and direct and certainly can feel like a confrontation or like an attack. But that is the general idea. I’m not doing it because of any negative feelings however, I’m doing it because I really seek answers and would love it if that person can provide them to me and convince me. That’d help me out of some of my misery.